Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
A Quiet Space | moderated by Clive Elwell

the extraordinary state of being nothing, of coming to the abyss of an eternal movement, and dropping over the edge

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Wed, 30 May 2018 #61
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 879 posts in this forum Offline

Huguette quoting K. wrote:
"Can one living in the world of reality end selfishness?”
- public talk 6, Saanen, 24 July 1975

So that 'me' is moving in the stream of greed, in the stream of selfishness,
in the stream of fear, anxiety and so on, which is the same as you in the stream.
I wonder if you get this. Please, don't accept what I am saying, see the truth of it.
That is: you are selfish and another is selfish, you are frightened, another is frightened - basically - you are aching, suffering, tears, greed, envy - that is the common lot of all human beings. That is the stream in which we are living in the present. Right?
That is the stream in which we are caught - all of us

Thanks for this quote Huguette,

It seems that this one stream of different energies - suffering, greed, jalousy, proud, etc., etc..?.. - manifest itself through us in all its various and subtle ways and therefore blocking true/right living.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Thu, 07 Jun 2018 #62
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5683 posts in this forum Offline

I started this thread to see if I could come upon a greater understanding of death, of how, if one has not stepped out of the stream while living, then somehow one (“thoughts of you”) continue on in the stream – the stream being where one was living before death anyway. I have to say I have failed in this.

I do have a sense, through observation, of how thoughts and feeling arise from the stream and create the appearance of “my consciousness”. I do have a sense, somehow, of what it means to “invite death” (psychological dying) while living; to face the unknown. But I cannot understand the transition from the living body to physical death, it seems to me SOMETHING must change in consciousness, when I am not longer receiving sensory inputs, no longer occupied, concerned, with daily living.

What really puzzled me was the quote I presented in &43:

And when the medium calls upon you, you manifest, out of that stream, because you are still there, still there in your daily life, because you are still pursuing the same thing that every human being is pursuing - security, permanency, "me' and 'not me',"we' and `they', this constant concern with yourself in that stream in which all human beings are caught.

As I wrote then,
“I am puzzled by the phrase “in your daily life”. here. If you are dead, what is this “daily life”? I may be missing something important here, and I would appreciate it if anyone has anything to comment on this”

Then Huguette presented a quote in &57 which I thought would be helpful, but in the end I got nothing new from it. I will read through it again, but I seem to be stuck in a groove of stale repeating perception which does not let the new in.

A day later:

Reading through what I wrote above, I begin to question my whole approach. That phrase “I have failed in this” puts me on the alert. Was I trying to succeed, to gain something? Is that real inquiry?

Was I falling into the same trap as the man I described from Commentaries on Living, on his death bed, wanting to turn what is fundamentally the unknown into the known?

Can one deliberately pursue inquiry into a particular issue? I am not saying that one can not, in fact K seemed to do this greatly. He often started announcing his direction of investigation. And yet it seems clear that to discover something new, one has to put aside what one knows – and isn’t direction part of what one knows? This seems a bit of a puzzle at the moment. But the mind which is pursuing an end, even the end of understanding, is not a still mind. And can not understanding only arise in stillness?

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