Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
A Quiet Space | moderated by Clive Elwell

Interesting illustration of ego


Displaying posts 31 - 34 of 34 in total
Sun, 22 Apr 2018 #31
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5016 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
We can do the same with our neighbor or spouse or child too, right?

I think it's another way of saying "being in relationship with". But, it seems to me, being in real relationship is certainly not a trivial think, or a common thing. What we normally have is a DESCRIPTION of relation, an image, which is actually blocking relationship, as all knowledge does.

More and more I observe that knowledge (psychological knowledge) is our greatest problem.

Tom Paine wrote:
It becomes difficult when the mind is divided however...one part of the mind (the observer or analyzer) battling with another part (the problem) as if it's separate.

Does it become difficult? Or does it become impossible when there is such duality?

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Sun, 22 Apr 2018 #32
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 2576 posts in this forum Offline

Yes, Clive, I was thinking the same, but didn’t have time to edit my post. When the mind is caught in such fragmentation it is probably impossible to see clearly/objectively, or understand the problem/issue, since the mind is battling against the problem....resisting it....trying to eliminate it. We can’t understand our friend or neighbor if we are condemning him/her. But we can perhaps observe our resistance and understand that.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Sun, 22 Apr 2018.

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Sun, 22 Apr 2018 #33
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 2576 posts in this forum Offline

Speaking of 'resistance', here's K from today's QOTD talking of resistance:

"As the majority of us have something - love, possessions, ideals, beliefs, conceptions - to protect, which go to make up that resistance which is the "I", the "me", it is futile to ask how to get rid of the "I", the "me", with its many layers of wants, fears, without fully comprehending the process of resistance. The very desire to free oneself from them is another and safer form of self-protection.

If you are aware of this process of protection, of building up walls to guard that which you are and have, if you are conscious of this, then you will never ask what is the way, the method, to free yourself from fear, from craving. Then you will find in the stillness of awareness the spontaneous breaking up of the various causes that condition thought-emotion.

You are not going to be aware by merely listening to one or two talks. It is as a fire which must be built, and you must build it. You must begin, however little, to be conscious, to be aware, and this you can be when you talk, when you laugh, when you come into contact with people, or when you are still. This awareness becomes a flame, and this flame consumes all fear which causes isolation. The mind must reveal itself spontaneously to itself. And this is not given only to a few, nor is it an impossibility."

Let it Be

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Sun, 22 Apr 2018 #34
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5016 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
When the mind is caught in such fragmentation it is probably impossible to see clearly/objectively, or understand the problem/issue,

I think this is a fact. The observer is actually a piece of knowledge, isn't it? It is an experience from yesterday, or 10 years ago, or 100,000 years ago. So the observer can only "look" through the screen of knowledge that it is, through a particular fragment. So this sort of observation can never be objective or clear. It must be biased and confused.

Tom Paine wrote:
, since the mind is battling against the problem....resisting it....trying to eliminate it.

Yes, as you say.

Tom Paine wrote:
But we can perhaps observe our resistance and understand that.

Yes. Is this not we have been doing? - take for example our last posts? We have seen this phenomena, this fact. So there has been, or is, understanding through observation.

The problem arises when the mind tries to accumulate the understanding, doesn't it? We are back at the start of the discussion :-) It is precisely this accumulation which becomes the self as the "observer".

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