Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
A Quiet Space | moderated by Clive Elwell

Involved vs Indifferent


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Wed, 22 Nov 2017 #1
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 597 posts in this forum Offline

The quote of today speaks of 'indifference' and my reply #18
in "Does using the senses only serve the self?" topic,
I recognized the importance of being 'involved'.

How are those two concepts combined without any border ??

the full quote is:

Ojai, California | 8th Public Talk 2nd July, 1944

The simple life does not consist in the mere possession of a few things but in the freedom from possession and non-possession,
in the indifference to things that comes with deep understanding. Merely to renounce things in order to reach greater happiness, greater joy that is promised, is to seek reward which limits thought and prevents it from flowering and discovering reality.
To control thought-feeling for a greater reward,
for a greater result, is to make it petty, ignorant and sorrowful. Simplicity of life comes with inner richness, with inward freedom from craving, with freedom from acquisitiveness,
from addiction, from distraction.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Mon, 27 Nov 2017 #2
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 597 posts in this forum Offline

the last few days there are a lot of possibilities gone through my mind, it seems a paradox, but is this so ??

Feeling the involvement in the course of things without getting entangled in it,
is not that the insignificance, the indifference that is meant here ??

doing it because it needs to be done .......,
not to get better from it on anyway.... or to achieve something with it.

It makes something happen...... which make a difference

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Tue, 28 Nov 2017 #3
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3851 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
doing it because it needs to be done .......,
not to get better from it on anyway.... or to achieve something with it.

It depends on what that "it" is, does it not? There are many "it's" in our life that need to be done- on the practical, material level. But on the psychological level, the "spiritual level" if I may use that word, there is absolutely nothing to be done, is there? In fact that dimension is filled with, of even created by, ideas of "doing", which is basically the same as becoming, isn't it? The fundamental issue seems to be, can all that psychological doing/becoming come to an end? Of course thought seizes on this question, turns it into an idea, and so makes it into even more fodder for becoming/achieving.

But does that question exist "apart from thought", beyond thought?

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Tue, 28 Nov 2017 #4
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 597 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
It depends on what that "it" is, does it not?
There are many "it's" in our life that need to be done- on the practical, material level.
But on the psychological level, the "spiritual level" if I may use that word, there is absolutely nothing to be done, is there? In fact that dimension is filled with, of even created by, ideas of "doing", which is basically the same as becoming, isn't it? The fundamental issue seems to be, can all that psychological doing/becoming come to an end? Of course thought seizes on this question, turns it into an idea, and so makes it into even more fodder for becoming/achieving.

But does that question exist "apart from thought", beyond thought?

Where the heart is full of, the mouth is overflowing.

Krishnaji questioned for decades and was that all thought ??

What are we, you and me, doing now ?
Is that for our own honor and glory ... to make us feel better ... to teach others something ... to show our knowledge of the teaching ....
share our experiences with it .. .. ???????????????

Those are the questions that have to be reviewed every time again and again
.................. only from that silent space ......
the echo of the truth ...... ...... the perfume of honesty.... can be perceived.... !

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Tue, 28 Nov 2017.

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Wed, 29 Nov 2017 #5
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 597 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
Those are the questions that have to be reviewed every time again and again
.................. only from that silent space ......
the echo of the truth ...... ...... the perfume of honesty.... can be perceived.... !

That fits very nicely with the QOTD 29/11

Group Discussion 27th November, 1947 | Madras, India

We have met in this group not for learning as in a classroom but to discuss with each other; and, in exchanging our thoughts, we begin to discover our own process of thinking. This is a self-revealing process, not of some metaphysical higher or superior self, but of the self which is working through you and me.
Without self-knowledge which is being aware of our own actions and our own feelings, there can be no right thinking at all.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Wed, 29 Nov 2017.

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