Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
A Quiet Space | moderated by Clive Elwell

Anger (or What does it mean investigate?) ...


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Wed, 28 Jun 2017 #31
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 703 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:

Wim Opdam wrote:

Is your mind hacked by your thoughts. ;-)

Interesting metaphor, Wim.
Of course I use thought a whole lot at work and doing things around the house,
but I think you mean something else by 'hacked'....

Tom, nothing personal here, it was not pro or contra something in your reply.

The hacking of 'kinfonet' and seeing both the similarity
as well as the difference made me make this remark.

There is a kind of hacking by which an overload of asking for information lays down the specific site. Within those requests for information there are serious ones mixed up with those who are meant to do the job for blocking the whole working of the site.
It's also matter moving matter.

this caused the brainwave !

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Wed, 28 Jun 2017 #32
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 4266 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
Is your mind hacked by your thoughts. ;-)

This is quite an interesting analogy, the mind being hacked - not by thoughts, but by the idea of the thinker. But I don't think you can point to poor Tom's mind alone!

When a website has been hacked, new code has to be written. Is this equivalent to K's "a physical change in the brain cells"?

Sorry, not intending to go off at a tangent from the main thread.

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Wed, 28 Jun 2017 #33
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 4266 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
This is a strange world ...

Yes

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Wed, 28 Jun 2017 #34
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 2216 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
This is quite an interesting analogy, the mind being hacked - not by thoughts, but by the idea of the thinker.

By the idea of the thinker... and the thinker's ideas(beliefs, ideals, conclusions, principles)!

Let it Be

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Thu, 29 Jun 2017 #35
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 4266 posts in this forum Offline

I was thinking of this business of making an effort. From an etymological dictionary:

effort (n.) Look up effort at Dictionary.com
late 15c., "laborious attempt, strenuous exertion," from Middle French effort, from Old French esforz "force, impetuosity, strength, power," verbal noun from esforcier "force out, exert oneself," from Vulgar Latin
exfortiare "to show strength" (source of Italian sforza), from Latin ex "out" (see ex-) + Latin fortis "strong" (see fort).*

Effort is only effort when it begins to hurt. [Ortega y Gasset, 1949]

I have an image in mind of a man trying to move a huge boulder. Seems to me, when effort is trasferred to the psychoogical realm, whenever the self feels it has to act, there must be effort.

AndI was thinking of the words 'act', and 'action'. I feel there is some confusion in the discussion above, because it (perhaps including K) puts two different meanings on the word 'action". There is the action stemming from the self, and there is action which stems from seeing. As I say, the former involves effort, the latter does not. The latter is pure, spontaneous.

This is why I suggested the word "doing" for action stemming from the self.

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Thu, 29 Jun 2017 #36
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 2216 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
There is the action stemming from the self, and there is action which stems from seeing.

There is mostly action which conforms to thought. K said that most of our actions are of this variety. I think I should be kind and I try to act kind. But this is is purely an act....like the actor in a play. Many religious people believe they should go to church on Sunday, and their actions conform to their belief. Or they believe they should help the poor, so they put a few dollars in the collection plate in church on Sunday. We believe we should fight for our country, so we join the army and kill for that belief. K, as you say Clive, often spoke about a totally different type of action. "The seeing is the acting" I think he said.

Clive: whenever the self feels it has to act, there must be effort.

T: right because it's a contradiction. I feel angry but I try(make effort) to act kind or tolerant. Thought is in contradiction to 'what is'....my anger, in this case. It takes effort to act kind when I'm not feeling kind. Or to act brave when I'm afraid.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Thu, 29 Jun 2017.

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Thu, 29 Jun 2017 #37
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 4266 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
There is mostly action which conforms to thought.

Exactly Tom. It is 'action' resulting from an idea, and so it is conforming, mechanical.

This post was last updated by Clive Elwell Thu, 29 Jun 2017.

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