Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
A Quiet Space | moderated by Clive Elwell

Is this not real love in absolute freedom? ...


Displaying all 9 posts
Page 1 of 1
Sun, 26 Feb 2017 #1
Thumb_stringio Juan E Spain 14 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

At night the room was very dark and the wide window showed the whole southern sky, and into this room one night came - with a great deal of fluttering - a bird. Turning on the light and getting out of bed one saw it under the bed. It was an owl. It was about a foot-and-a-half high with extremely wide big eyes and a fearsome beak. We gazed at each other quite close, a few feet apart. It was frightened by the light and the closeness of a human being. We looked at each other without blinking for quite a while, and it never lost its height and its fierce dignity. You could see the cruel claws the light feathers and the wings tightly held against the body. One would have liked to touch it, stroke it, but it would not have allowed that. So presently the light was turned out and for some time there was quietness in the room. Soon there was a fluttering of the wings - you could feel the air against your face - and the owl had gone out of the window. It never came again -- J.KonLine Daily Quote Archive » Meditation is not an escape from the world

How many times we touch the other, in its multiple ways, without that deep feeling that only love has, to know if the other wants to be touched or not, by us? ... How many times we have such a respect for the other with our hearts resting calm and loving when the other doesn't want us to touch him or her in its multiple ways? ... How many times we feel happy hearing the wings of the other fluttering and going out of the window without knowing if he or she will come back again? ...

How many times we really love the other(s) along the day?

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

This post was last updated by Juan E (account deleted) Sun, 26 Feb 2017.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Mon, 27 Feb 2017 #2
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 4319 posts in this forum Offline

Good questions, Juan, and I appreciate the analogy that you draw with this description by K of his meeting with the owl.

Knowing when to let go is indeed a challenging thing. At least it is challenging to the mind. Perhaps it is no challenge to love, because the letting go is an integral part of love, not separate from it.

I think K once said that if we really loved another, we would happily see that person, support that person, getting married to another.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Thu, 02 Mar 2017 #3
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 4319 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
The world doesn't love, it only loves itself, so killing everything within it.

I often hear the phrase "one needs to love onself", but does it really have any meaning?

For one thing, what is this "oneself"? Does it have actual existence, or is it merely an image?

And is love only there when the self is not?

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Thu, 02 Mar 2017 #4
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 4319 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
That the thing we let go is in fact not the other, but the image in ourselves of the other

This seems so, Juan. In fact all the mind can contain is images, is it not?

Juan E wrote:
in the sense that at that moment the ever present freedom in the other becomes our own freedom ..

What is this "ever present freedom in the other", Juan?

And in letting go of the images in ourselves, are we creating freedom in the world? Because those images actually are the images of the world.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Fri, 03 Mar 2017 #5
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 4319 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
. To me, what i'm observing right now in my living in relation, is that in letting go of images the only thing that happens is that we return to our natural state of freedom which has nothing to do with thought saying "I'm free!".

So are you saying that the relationship, by exposing the falseness of image-making, reveals what has always been there in a human being, but has been obscured, the state of freedom?

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Sun, 05 Mar 2017 #6
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 4319 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
and in that natural freedom is where (real) Love arises ...

What is this “natural freedom” you refer to, Juan? Is it freedom FROM something? And what is the relationship of freedom to love? Would you say that they are in any way different? You refer to:
“ the freedom we had before entering in it ”

.…....

But I am on the point of cancelling this mail. My questions come from thought, and it seems you are coming from quite a different space altogether. Perhaps there is no way of meeting. One is feeling, seeing, the absolute limitation of thought. The only things that thought can share are ideas, is it not? That is a sobering thought in itself. And there is no freedom in thought.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Mon, 06 Mar 2017 #7
Thumb_rodin_de_denker Olive B Netherlands 238 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
you are coming from quite a different space

No Clive, Juan is not in “higher spaceses, he is mixing up Love and romantic love.

Yes, romantic love can be experienced as vulnerable, but Love is not at all vulnerable it is everpresent, irreducible, and indestructible.

Experience alone must be the test of reality.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Tue, 07 Mar 2017 #8
Thumb_rodin_de_denker Olive B Netherlands 238 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
why do you interpret vulnerability as the possibility of somehow be hurt

I am not, but you are building walls to protect yourself from…. yes from what? ….being hurt?

Juan E wrote:
but we don't want others to know about that vulnerability in us, so it is because of this that we build walls pretending to love after from behind those individual walls

Experience alone must be the test of reality.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Wed, 22 Mar 2017 #9
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 614 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dear love Clive,

Clive:>Knowing when to let go is indeed a challenging thing. At least it is challenging to the mind. Perhaps it is no challenge to love, because the letting go is an integral part of love, not separate from it.

Mina: Right. When pure love is, and there is no other kind of love, there is nothing but 'letting go' in it. (not even anyone to do so). There is no mind in love. There is only love in love. It is in the mind that a challenge is experienced, ultimately.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Displaying all 9 posts
Page 1 of 1
To quote a portion of this post in your reply, first select the text and then click this "Quote" link.

(N.B. Be sure to insert an empty line between the quoted text and your reply.)