Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
A Quiet Space | moderated by Clive Elwell

Silence .... hesitantly


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Thu, 16 Feb 2017 #1
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 2941 posts in this forum Offline

Awoke this morning very much seeing the mind for what it is. That is, a recording machine. A registration and play-back machine, although this process is compulsive and disorderly. If one has watched a movie one day, it is there in the mind the next day – at least parts of it, the parts that for some reason impressed themselves most deeply into the brain. At any time snatches of music, heard in the past, start to replay themselves in the mind. All sorts of experiences, painful and pleasurable, experiences that have etched themselves into the brain cells, replay themselves. And so the present is continually overwhelmed by the past. One could say the human problem is that the past is responding to the challenges of the present.

And it is the past reacting, in the form of images, that is so destructive of relationship throughout the day. And when I turned to read the news of the day, one was reminded of the full extent of this destructive capacity of the mind to register, recall, and act from that recall.

But it seems that this process is necessary at some level – it seems to have been Mankind's evolutionary path – the way of the accumulation of technical knowledge. Yet this capacity is operating far beyond the purely technical, and is in fact threatening our very existence, and that of most life on Earth.

So it seems essential to examine this process that is going on in the brain, registration and involuntary recall. Most of this recall could be described as a sort of noise – but a noise made vastly complicated by the self, the ego, the centre that thought has created – we can say the centre of the noise, perhaps.

And one asks, as many throughout human history have asked, is there a way out of this noise of the past? One could say that up to the present time, for the most part, these “way-outs” have consisted of the noise trying to quieten itself. I think here on this forum we would agree such methods are futile, no matter how subtle.

So if we put aside all such methods, is there anything else? Two words come to mind – awareness and silence, (not suggesting that these are separate things). Huguette has eloquently written on Awareness recently. I have been wanting to raise the issue of Silence – or rather continue the discussion Rip and I were having on the thread “The Pedestal”, but really not knowing how to approach it. Can Silence be approached out of noise, the noise of thought?

Will finish here for the moment.

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1 day ago #2
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 2941 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
So if we put aside all such methods, is there anything else? Two words come to mind – awareness and silence,

I said above that when asking if there exists anything outside of the noise of the mind, two words come to mind, awareness and silence. It came later there is perhaps a third – Intelligence.

I do not mean what is generally meant by the word intelligence, which refers to some capacity of the human brain. A capacity to get things done in the physical world. Is there an intelligence which permeates the universe, a force which implies order, harmony? When I look at the natural world there is a strong feeling this intelligence exists, as an active force.

Yet there is very little order in human affairs. Intelligence does not seem to be manifesting itself there. Rather there is disharmony, conflict, much unhappiness and suffering. Why? Why does Intelligence not act in the human arena?

Is it that the noise of the human mind does not let it in?

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1 day ago #3
Thumb_img_20150716_212047-1-1 richard viillar France 145 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
It came later there is perhaps a third – Intelligence.....
Intelligence does not seem to be manifesting itself there....
why does Intelligence not act in the human arena?...
Is it that the noise of the human mind does not let it in?

hello bonjour clive,

i would say that there is intelligence.. always. because life manifests suffering... that is intellingence and human mind cannot stops this process whith noise... what you named noise, can not stop it from being there. but, what you named noise, try to veil suffering during all human life.. here is a basic trap as i see it

This post was last updated by richard viillar 1 day ago.

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8 hours ago #4
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 2941 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
Why does Intelligence not act in the human arena? Is it that the noise of the human mind does not let it in?

I was reflecting that the scientific meaning of the word “noise” is unwanted sound. It has a special meaning in electronics. If a radio telescope is trying to gather information from distant galaxies, the signal may be polluted, mixed up, by inadvertently picking up other signals, say from the Earth's atmosphere, or even the body of the telescope itself. These unwanted signals are known as noise. And they may become so large as to completely drown out the information, the signals that are wanted to be examined.

Is this what is happening to the brain? Needing to be in contact with the signals, the energies outside of itself, the energies of awareness, of intelligence, of love, that contact fails because of the noise the brain itself is generating.

The noise of the brain, of course, is thought. At least psychological thought, unnecessary thought.

So it may be that only in silence, in the absence of noise, can the brain be in contact with those essential energies outside of itself. And this is the significance, the meaning, of silence.

Just hesitantly.

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6 hours ago #5
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 2941 posts in this forum Offline

richard viillar wrote:
what you named noise, can not stop it from being there. but, what you named noise, try to veil suffering during all human life.. here is a basic trap as i see it

I am not sure that I am understanding you, Richard. You are saying, are you, that the noise of the mind may mask suffering, but not eliminate it, is that it?

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6 hours ago #6
Thumb_img_20150716_212047-1-1 richard viillar France 145 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
You are saying, are you, that the noise of the mind may mask suffering, but not eliminate it, is that it?

Yes, The noise (egotic thought) trys to mask this manifestation (suffering) of intelligence of life. But cannot stop it. And to try to mask (which can be underlaying a trying to résolve suffering) it is as i see it, a false way. ..

This post was last updated by richard viillar 6 hours ago.

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6 hours ago #7
Thumb_avatar Juan E Spain 34 posts in this forum Offline

Bon jour Richard, ça va?!

I must leave for a walk into nature with some friends, but i would like to understand the connection you make between 'suffering' and 'manifestation of intelligence of life'

So, if you have some time to expand on that I'll read you when come back home in the evening.

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

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4 hours ago #8
Thumb_img_20150716_212047-1-1 richard viillar France 145 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
i would like to understand the connection you make between 'suffering' and 'manifestation of intelligence of life'

hola Juan que tal?!

just to mean that as i see it the whole life is intelligence beyond all we can understand... for exemple the phenomenon of cause and effect is life also then intellingence of it, and all which results from that phenomenon is intelligence also, beyond all we can see in daily life (war and so on even earth instinction...).

i make that connection also because i see the manifestation of suffering it seems to me, as an instinct survival process of human species, which will explain why Buddha and K talk a lot of the necessity to don't try to avoid suffering but to take it as a starting point... it is here.. in our daily life available and accessible to all of us

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3 hours ago #9
Thumb_picture0122 Daniel Paul. Ireland 117 posts in this forum Offline

richard viillar wrote:
and accessible to all of us

Hello Richard,

agreed with what you bring before...what I quote here is for me too a vital fact...it is there for all of us...potentially...then whatever we do or not with all that is our choice...yet factually so solve that question it seems that there is no choice at all...

suffering is above "me" choices...

it has to be that way, it only can be that way....

cheerio :-)

Dan ...........

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