Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
A Quiet Space | moderated by Clive Elwell

How do you tell your fellow human beings?


Displaying posts 61 - 65 of 65 in total
Tue, 03 Jan 2017 #61
Thumb_img_1496 Per . Sweden 85 posts in this forum Offline

Got it sir. Been there myself. At least in the neighborhoods. Anxiety, stress, pressure, hostility, insomnia. No obvious way out. No escape. Can really see how words about understanding and the rest of my mumbojumbo here falls flat, and have nothing much to say to you right now. Other than this.

When my life looked like this I somehow found the strength to start meditating regularly. Everyday, in the early morning. Before the rest of my family came awake. I tried at other times of the day, but it simply did not work out. I have managed to keep this practice, and in hindsight I think it really helped me. How I cannot tell. And this is not a recommendation to you, I´m just saying that it somehow helped me..

By the way. To me the QOTD is right on spot.

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Tue, 03 Jan 2017 #62
Thumb_a1056283319_2 Tom Paine United States 1493 posts in this forum Offline

Per . wrote:
When my life looked like this I somehow found the strength to start meditating regularly

I never did that, per. There were many times when I looked deeply into myself and my thoughts...emotions...was attentive to what was happening in 'me'. Mostly this happened...happens....when the usual escapes no longer work, and I'm left with the problem alone...no way to avoid it. Then sometimes something happens....some insight or other comes into the brain...when one looks at the problem itself...not seeking understanding or presence (god forbid one is foolish enough to seek an idea or ideal) or anything at all. One is fully attentive to the urgency of the problem or conflict and stops seeking for an escape. That's been my meditation....no 'practice' involved. Don't you feel it's important to put aside all ideation or speculating or imaginin or practicing(for the future) and look at the problem itself....at what actually is, be it fear or anxiety or confusion, or something we don't actually understand...to admit that we really know absolutely nothing about it nor about anything 'spiritual' that we might be tempted to seek as a way out...an escape.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Tue, 03 Jan 2017.

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Wed, 04 Jan 2017 #63
Thumb_a1056283319_2 Tom Paine United States 1493 posts in this forum Offline

Per . wrote:
Got it sir. Been there myself. At least in the neighborhoods. Anxiety, stress, pressure, hostility, insomnia. No obvious way out. No escape.

I think you misunderstood, Per. K. said that the answer is in the problem itself...not away from it...not in any ideal or idea or goal in time...be it presence or understanding or peace or love. Facing the problem as it is is the only way to understand it....to understand oneself. Got to run. Perhaps I'll have another go at this another day. Perhaps other members will share their understanding of this issue of how to approach the problems we face.

Let it Be

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Wed, 04 Jan 2017 #64
Thumb_a1056283319_2 Tom Paine United States 1493 posts in this forum Offline

Do you see that you've ceased exploring... observing....looking...perceiving....when you say you have found? From K...." I would suggest that you approach these questions, which concern us all, without seeking an answer; for, as I said, there is no answer, and if you expect an answer at the end of the talk, you will be disappointed. But what you and I can do, as two individuals, is to explore the problem. It is much more important to explore than to discover. What matters is to keep on looking, examining, perceiving, without saying "I have found". The man who has found, has really not found; the man who says he knows, never knows. So it is with an attitude of learning, of feeling it out together, that you and I as two human beings are going to look into the problem."

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Wed, 04 Jan 2017.

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Wed, 04 Jan 2017 #65
Thumb_img_1496 Per . Sweden 85 posts in this forum Offline

Perhaps a misunderstanding here; what "I got" was that the things I tried to convey must fall flat for you given the circumstances you describe. A man living in anxiety and utter despair cannot be expected to consider the deeper meaning of understanding, presence etc. He has much more urgent matters to handle. Just like it is difficult to meditate when your house is on fire, especially if you yourself are still in it.

That is what I thought I got, and perhaps I got it all wrong. I am open to that possibility. And I am totally in line with what you write above. When you think you have got it you have just closed the door. Cuddling with a fragment and taking it for the whole. This is just false security and extremely dangerous in the longer run..

I am also in line with "being with what is". That the the solution is at the heart of the problem. Not outside it. And that we must be very attentive and dare to face whatever to move beyond. To me to this is meditation; to be still with what is.

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