Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
A Quiet Space | moderated by Clive Elwell

Some thoughts that appeared today...


Displaying posts 1 - 30 of 36 in total
Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #1
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 614 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

We say that there is no love in the world, for as long as we have not discovered it within ourselves.

We say that the world is in great disorder, for as long as we have not discovered order in ourselves.

We say that there is no God, because we have not discovered our own divine essence.

We say that the world is, (or we are) this or that, because we have not discovered that we ARE the world.

and because we hold ourselves separate from the world, in other words, from our own essence, the world appears to exist. That is how the world of disorder, lovelessness, worldliness, division, is created, from moment to moment.

This does not need to happen, there is a 'choice', altogether of a different kind. It is the surrender of the mind to the Heart where the mind ends..

It is a choice that is not made by the mind which is already in a state of choice appearing as division.

Wishing Merry Christmas to all and that 'choices of heart' (which are not those of the mind) are let to lead our lives.

with love,
Mina

This post was last updated by Mina Martini (account deleted) Thu, 15 Dec 2016.

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #2
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 1910 posts in this forum Offline

Mina Martini wrote:
Wishing Merry Christmas to all and that 'choices of heart' (which are not those of the mind) are let to lead our lives.

Merry Christmas to you and yours, mina! "Let" by who? What could bring about such choosing but thought?

Let it Be

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #3
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3664 posts in this forum Offline

Mina Martini wrote:
We say that the world is in great disorder, for as long as we have not discovered order in ourselves.

Just to examine this one of those thoughts that arose, as you say.

Would you not say that Krishnamurti - choosing him as an example I am familiar with - did discover order in himself? And yet he continued to insist, in his public talks, that that word is in great disorder.

Would you care to comment on this, Mina?

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #4
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

The world of mind as time is dis order, time as man is disorder,

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #5
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

This mind surrendeing to heart ?

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #6
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 614 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
Merry Christmas to you and yours, mina! "Let" by who? What could bring about such choosing but thought?

Mina: You might just well forget the word 'choice' altogether, since it seems to lead you to think..

Not let by any entity carved out of thought, not chosen by any entity carved out of thought...this negation is enough..

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #7
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 614 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

david sharma wrote:
The world of mind as time is dis order, time as man is disorder,

Yes.

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #8
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

Time as matter is this world

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #9
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

Love can not be of time

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #10
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 614 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

david sharma wrote:
This mind surrendeing to heart ?

The surrender that is talked of, is not a action of the mind, but rather a discovery of the Heart (by the word heart I mean something beyond the mind) as the only Reality.

Would you like to say what is unclear, if anything...since you seemed to pose a question..

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #11
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 614 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

david sharma wrote:
Time as matter is this world

Yes. Thought, which is time and matter, has created that which it then calls the world, as if the world was separate from it.

This post was last updated by Mina Martini (account deleted) Thu, 15 Dec 2016.

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #12
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 614 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

david sharma wrote:
Love can not be of time

Yes, love is not of time

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #13
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

Yes Mina word surrender?

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #14
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

Is ending of time as self surrender?

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #15
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

Is love as heart surrender

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #16
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

Self surrendeing to ?

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #17
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 614 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Clive Elwell wrote:
Would you not say that Krishnamurti - choosing him as an example I am familiar with - did discover order in himself? And yet he continued to insist, in his public talks, that that word is in great disorder.

Mina: The order that is talked of in my initial post, is not the relative 'order' that thought tries to create through time and becoming, always of course failing. Krishnamurti was also talking about the disorder of the mind and and the chaotic world it is creating. This disorder is there exactly because we have not discovered true order in ourselves. The world is our own reflection.

You seem to be experiencing some contradiction somewhere, which I cannot experience or find myself. Say more if you want to help me understand where an apparent, never real, contradiction, might lie.

...something came in this silence:

You are still seeing 'two worlds', the one in order and the one out of order, that must be it....this is the cause for the apparent confusion.

For as long as we do not realise that there is only ONE world, in other words we do not fully understand that we ARE the world, (and this understanding cannot come from division which is thought)apparent duality will be experienced.

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #18
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

Time as past is becoming, this becoming is self as mind , this is what man calls life as lived in time , this can not surrender,

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #19
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

Yes thought is division, a duality, world of mind

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #20
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 614 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

david sharma wrote:
Is ending of time as self surrender?

Ending of self/thought is the ending of time, yes.

The word 'surrender' describes an action that is not brought about by thought as will, effort, decision, some positive action. Surrender describes total negation of thought. It is a beautiful word exactly because it so much feels, as a word also, as an action which is whole, and in which there is no separate doer..It implies you throw away all armor, psychologically, and not out of fear, not under threat, but only out of love

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #21
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

Seeing is non duel, is love

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #22
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 614 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

david sharma wrote:
Time as past is becoming, this becoming is self as mind , this is what man calls life as lived in time , this can not surrender,

Yes. It is not the mind that surrenders in the sense of there being any part of it that does something. The surrendering is the mind becoming quiet, no, better say the mind falling silent...even that falling is of timeless quality, not any kind of becoming

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #23
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3664 posts in this forum Offline

Mina Martini wrote:
Say more if you want to help me understand where an apparent, never real, contradiction, might lie.

Well if you are convinced that it is not real, how could I possibly "help you understand" it!?

In actual fact, there is no movement in me to "help" anyone understand anything, since I myself do not claim to 'understand' anything. But I am generally willing to inquire into things with people.

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #24
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 614 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

david sharma wrote:
Seeing is non duel, is love

Yes..seeing, wholeness, love, all descriptions of the same..

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #25
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

Yes Mina , a feel, a beautiful word ,I am blocked,

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #26
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

MIna sending you love David

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #27
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 614 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Clive Elwell wrote:
Well if you are convinced that it is not real, how could I possibly "help you understand" it!?

Mina: I did not mean that. I meant that it could help me have an insight into it if I could somehow realise where you are experiencing contradiction...but in that very reply an insight came , it was already nesting in the feeling of total blankness in which I asked you to clarify more... and interesting that no clarification was really needed, I only thought so for a while...

Clive:>In actual fact, there is no movement in me to "help" anyone understand anything, since I myself do not claim to 'understand' anything. But I am generally willing to inquire into things with people.

Mina: I did not mean the kind of help that you are describing above. Not the 'help' of someone convinced about something or of someone who claims to understand something. Are you feeling this is what the 'help' I mentioned is about?

This post was last updated by Mina Martini (account deleted) Thu, 15 Dec 2016.

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #28
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 614 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Mina Martini wrote:
You are still seeing 'two worlds', the one in order and the one out of order, that must be it....

We see two worlds, or two (or more)anything, because we look from the fragments of thought, from the one,two,three,four... The 'one' of thought is never only one. It contains all other following fragments already. Take one step in thought and all the steps are there. Do not take this one step, and all the steps (the whole world thought has created) dies with you.

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #29
Thumb_stringio David T United Kingdom 150 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Sharing the love too Minnie.
Best wishes to you and Anna and Bella for Christmas,from John and Enzo

I am a figment of my and your imagination

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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 #30
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 1910 posts in this forum Offline

Mina Martini wrote:
Not let by any entity carved out of thought, not chosen by any entity carved out of thought...this negation is enough..

OK...we can agree that there's no choosing. I find that word to be deceptive...along with the 'letting', as if there's someone to do that. I'm sure you're aware how misleading words can be. We've been brainwashed for so long(centuries....millenia) with things we 'should' or ought to do ....goals, etc...that 'letting' and 'choosing' seem to only be more of the same b.s..

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Fri, 16 Dec 2016.

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