Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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The Self Centered Activity


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Sun, 15 May 2016 #1
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 591 posts in this forum Offline

In dealing with or resolving the issues/problems/conflicts in relationships (like fear, anxiety, jealousy, violence, suffering etc.), can the mind act in a way which is not self centered?

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Sun, 15 May 2016 #2
Thumb_farside0411 m christani United States 650 posts in this forum Offline

If one can observe these things in oneself without any wanting to change them, wanting to get beyond them, and of course without condemning, justifying, and without labelling the thought/feeling, is such seeing, insight, action without direction?

mike

This post was last updated by m christani Sun, 15 May 2016.

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Mon, 16 May 2016 #3
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 591 posts in this forum Offline

There has to be a clear cut understanding of what we are calling as "self centered activity".

Observing one's surroundings, one decides (as the movement of thought) that there are certain actions that need to be taken to improve one's quality of living and to fulfill one's duties. These fall into functional requirements and thoughts aid in actions that are taken to achieve one's goals.

In addition to above, there is another way one decides the action that need to be taken to perform the required functions.

Instead of observing environment directly, the memories of past experiences come alive inwardly. One becomes conscious of this world of images and knowledge gathered from environment in the past stored in memory. This world appears as real as the surrounding environment to a center/entity that is called self/me/I. This self is the controller/judge/thinker/observer of this world. Thoughts and emotions interact with each other endlessly here and this movement (in nut shell) is the self centered activity that is keeping the self alive.

Feel free to add to this description, please.

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Mon, 16 May 2016 #4
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 4369 posts in this forum Offline

m christani wrote:
If one can observe these things in oneself without any wanting to change them, wanting to get beyond them, and of course without condemning, justifying, and without labelling the thought/feeling, is such seeing, insight, action without direction?

I would say that this is the only action. In this observation things wither away.

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Tue, 17 May 2016 #5
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 591 posts in this forum Offline

m christani wrote:
If one can observe these things in oneself without any wanting to change them, wanting to get beyond them, and of course without condemning, justifying, and without labelling the thought/feeling, is such seeing, insight, action without direction?

This question is a self centered activity. It is the self that is putting up this question. It is impossible to avoid next self centered movement of thought/thought induced effort...or is it possible?

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Tue, 17 May 2016 #6
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 591 posts in this forum Offline

The self centered activity is directed towards pursuing pleasure or avoiding pain. It does so in a very selfish manner and this is the reason society condemns it. We are encouraged by society/religion to not indulge in self centered activities and being selfless is praised/applauded.

Such praises sow the seed in our psyche of becoming 'selfless' and to condemn or feel guilty when selfishness is shown to be controlling our behavior/actions.

Then the teachers/gurus come in the picture to show us how to become selfless.

When their teachings fail to achieve desired result (being selfless) in us, some of them advise us to not force a change in our actions, but gain self knowledge. They say observe passively the self centered activities and freedom will be yours.

Those of us who are serious do start an inquiry into this issue of selflessness. There are many pointers given by teachers/gurus and we experiment with them to the best of our ability and understanding. We do have 'experiences' and each of this appears special until the next one comes our way. We feel 'enlightened', but only temporarily.

In the mean time the self centered activities continue to create conflict/confrontations and pain in our lives...And we continue to make efforts to achieve that state of 'selflessness' that the teacher or guru recommended as the ultimate solution of all our worries/fears/sufferings/pains etc.

Despite the appearance of all the new understandings/experiences/insights, the pain and conflicts in relationships persist. The self centered activities go on along with the effort of becoming selfless. The pointers by teachers/gurus/scriptures keep the hopes alive, but constant failures also (as shown by persisting conflicts/pain) keep arising from time to time.

We change guru/teacher, but conflicts/pain show that we are not succeeding in changing the quality of our lives. We get new pointers, but the end result remains the same.

Can pointers by gurus/teachers/scriptures ever succeed in changing the selfish quality of our actions?

Is the goal of 'selflessness' ever achievable by man?

Can self centered activities in man ever end?

Are we, after constant failures, asking these kind of questions of ourselves now?

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Tue, 17 May 2016 #7
Thumb_open-uri20171115-31086-13da1wu-0 Dan McDermott United States 893 posts in this forum Offline

Sudhir Sharma wrote:
Is the goal of 'selflessness' ever achievable by man?

Can self centered activities in man ever end?

Are we, after constant failures, asking these kind of questions of ourselves now?

Perhaps Sudhir, there DOES need to be 'freedom' to see the frustrations, impatience, motives, 'goals', efforts, questions and conclusions of the 'self'. And as it has been 'pointed out', this 'freedom' can't come at the end of the 'search'; something that through 'time, we 'reach' or attain...it has to be at the beginning.

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