Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
A Quiet Space | moderated by Clive Elwell

Poetry and Literature


Displaying posts 31 - 42 of 42 in total
Fri, 18 Nov 2016 #31
Thumb_rodin_de_denker Olive B Netherlands 104 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
If there is such a choice, what is the basis for it? And what is it that chooses?

Hi Clive,

It is more a realization.

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Fri, 18 Nov 2016 #32
Thumb_stringio Juan E. Spain 391 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Olive B wrote:
you can only experience in the body.

Sorry to step in ...

What about those who have lost a leg or arm and experience sensations as if it was still there?

Let's see ...

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Fri, 18 Nov 2016 #33
Thumb_stringio Juan E. Spain 391 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Olive B wrote:
The Tao is the mystery within the mistery eternally real, the unnamable.

Really curious to use a name to name the unnamable, isn't it? ;-)

Let's see ...

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Sat, 19 Nov 2016 #34
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3148 posts in this forum Online

Olive B wrote:
It is more a realization.

I see. Choice and realisation are completely different things, aren't they? Seems to me that choice comes from our conditioning, and any action from there can only continue the conditioning.

This in itself is a tremendous realisation.

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Sat, 19 Nov 2016 #35
Thumb_stringio Juan E. Spain 391 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Clive Elwell wrote:
Seems to me that choice comes from our conditioning, and any action from there can only continue the conditioning.

Can i ask what is considered by 'choice'? ... Why are you here listening to what others say, posting your own responses to it, and not watching for example a reality show in the TV? ... Would you say that this is due to your conditioning which continues by 'choosing' one thing and not the other?

Let's see ...

This post was last updated by Juan E. (account deleted) Sat, 19 Nov 2016.

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Sat, 19 Nov 2016 #36
Thumb_stringio Juan E. Spain 391 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Clive Elwell wrote:
This in itself is a tremendous realisation.

Does such realization free yourself of taking absolutely no choice in your life? ... Otherwise what we call realization could be no more than intellectual understanding (which in fact seems not to change a thing in us)

Let's see ...

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Sat, 19 Nov 2016 #37
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3148 posts in this forum Online

Juan E. wrote:
Can i ask what is considered by 'choice'? ...

Well, this is what I was asking, what is meant by choice. One hears the word such a lot, and sometimes with the strangest connotations ...... like recently I heard someone talking of a child "choosing to be born. Or not to be born". I think it has become part of the "New Age" philosophy. It seems unwarranted to me. And there is tremendous emphasis placed on choice in society, in the commercial world. Almost as if it is the be-all and end-all of life.

Why are you here listening to what
others say, posting your own responses
to it, and not watching for example a
reality show in the TV? ... Would you
say that this is due to your
conditioning which continues by
'choosing' one thing and not the
other?

I am not at all sure that I am here writing on this forum because 'I have chosen to do so'. Cannot one's actions be a result of clear perception also? Cannot intelligence play a part? (Not saying that "I am intelligent")

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Sat, 10 Dec 2016 #38
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3148 posts in this forum Online

The Morning’s News

by Wendell Berry

To moralize the state, they drag out a man,

and bind his hands, and darken his eyes

with a black rag to be free of the light in them,

and tie him to a post, and kill him.

And I am sickened by the complicity in my race.

To kill in hot savagery like a beast

is understandable. It is forgivable and curable.

But to kill by design, deliberately, without wrath,

that is the sullen labor that perfects Hell.

The serpent is gentle, compared to man.

It is man, the inventor of cold violence,

death as waste, who has made himself lonely

among the creatures, and set himself aside,

so that he cannot work in the sun with hope,

or sit at peace in the shade of any tree.

The morning’s news drives sleep out of the head

at night. Uselessness and horror hold the eyes

open to the dark. Weary, we lie awake

in the agony of the old giving birth to the new

without assurance that the new will be better.

I look at my son, whose eyes are like a young god’s,

they are so open to the world.

I look at my sloping fields now turning

green with the young grass of April. What must I do

to go free? I think I must put on

a deathlier knowledge, and prepare to die

rather than enter into the design of man’s hate.

I will purge my mind of the airy claims

of church and state. I will serve the earth

and not pretend my life could better serve.

Another morning comes with its strange cure.

The earth is news. Though the river floods

And the spring is cold, my heart goes on,

faithful to a mystery in a cloud,

and the summer’s garden continues its descent

through me, toward the ground.

.

...................by Wendell Berry

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Sun, 12 Feb 2017 #39
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3148 posts in this forum Online

Wait a Minute

I open my eyes in the morning.

For a minute
I am neither here nor there.

Then in the next minute

I am here but starting

to be there.

The day has begun.

I will get up

and start to seek,

and continue starting,

so that every minute of this day

will begin with an anticipation

of the promise of the next one.

All day long and into the evening,

every minute of my waking hours,

I will not be here

because I am seeking

to be there.

I tell myself—

a pill will do it,

a walk in the fine fresh air will do it,

a Villa-Lobos prelude will do it,

a message on my telephone answering machine will do it,

a good library book will do it,

a glass of white wine at five o’clock will do it,

a good dinner will do it.

I close my eyes in the evening,

and I say to myself,

with relief at the day’s ending:

a good night’s sleep will do it.

Every day is the same.

I never stop to ask:

“Do what?”

I never think to look for

what it is

that lies between the

beginning of the minute

and the end of it.

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Mon, 13 Feb 2017 #40
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 473 posts in this forum Offline

let go of the past
but cherish the pilot light
of the eternal fire

Dora Smeesters 2016

She, at the age of 92 surprised us last week with her poems within this
a personal mission haiku - which has been translated by me - because of our 25 years of friendship under the umbrella of the Krishnamurti Teaching.
She is one of the last persons I know who knew Krishnamurti personal, was for many years member of the Belgian K. committee and also of the Dutch-speaking "Vereniging Leerproject" where I've met her and worked with here.
Still with a very clear mind and a warm heart.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Mon, 13 Feb 2017.

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Thu, 09 Mar 2017 #41
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 473 posts in this forum Offline

Saw - because of womans day - a documentary about Maya Angelou,
who despite of here experiences could write something like this:

Touched By an Angel.

We, unaccustomed to courage
exiles from delight
live coiled in shells of loneliness
until love leaves its high holy temple
and comes into our sight
to liberate us into life.

Love arrives
and in its train come ecstasies
old memories of pleasure
ancient histories of pain.
Yet if we are bold,
love strikes away the chains of fear
from our souls.

We are weaned from our timidity
In the flush of love's light
we dare be brave
And suddenly we see
that love costs all we are
and will ever be.
Yet it is only love
which sets us free.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Thu, 09 Mar 2017.

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Thu, 09 Mar 2017 #42
Thumb_avatar Juan E Spain 198 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
Maya Angelou, who despite of her experiences could write something like this:

How simple she expresses here, in a few words, what lyes behind my latest posts full of words to Clive in the "Have you ever loved beyond imagination?" thread ... Those words of her are a living truth to me at the present ...

Thanks a lot for letting me to know Maya Angelou and her beautiful poem, Wim!

p.s.: yesterday i saw poetry in motion also in the movie "The Man Who Knew Infinity"

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

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