Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
A Quiet Space | moderated by Clive Elwell

Poetry and Literature


Displaying posts 1 - 30 of 43 in total
Wed, 11 May 2016 #1
Thumb_farside0411 m christani United States 650 posts in this forum Offline

I know words are often disparaged, being not the thing and so on, yet even K loved some poetry and some non-thrillers: poems by Keats (esp. Ode on a Grecian Urn) and near his end he was heard reciting from this one by Tennyson (from a bio, I honestly forget which):

Crossing the Bar

Sunset and evening star,
And one clear call for me!
And may there be no moaning of the bar,
When I put out to sea,

But such a tide as moving seems asleep,
Too full for sound and foam,
When that which drew from out the boundless deep
Turns again home.

Twilight and evening bell,
And after that the dark!
And may there be no sadness of farewell,
When I embark;

For though from out our bourne of Time and Place
The flood may bear me far,
I hope to see my Pilot face to face
When I have crossed the bar.

mike

This post was last updated by m christani Wed, 11 May 2016.

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Wed, 11 May 2016 #2
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3349 posts in this forum Offline

I love this poem. So many times I have read it, yet each time feels like the first time, and even now tears well up.

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Wed, 11 May 2016 #3
Thumb_farside0411 m christani United States 650 posts in this forum Offline

I love the 3rd stanza. I feel that way about my death.

mike

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Wed, 11 May 2016 #4
Thumb_farside0411 m christani United States 650 posts in this forum Offline

I like this quote, may be wrong, but there may be some truth there in the black and white world we sometimes imagine:

“no form of love is wrong, so long as it is love, and you yourself honour what you are doing. Love has an extraordinary variety of forms! And that is all there is in life, it seems to me. But I grant you, if you deny the variety of love you deny love altogether. If you try to specialize love into one set of accepted feelings, you wound the very soul of love. Love must be multi-form, else it is just tyranny, just death”

-D.H. Lawrence

mike

This post was last updated by m christani Wed, 11 May 2016.

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Wed, 11 May 2016 #5
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 1324 posts in this forum Offline

Yes, words can evoke the beautiful and the sublime, just as can music and art.

"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more . . ."

"I know a bank where the wild thyme grows . . ."

"And what rough beast, his hour come 'round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem . . ."

Words, music, art, almost make one want to live forever.

max

This post was last updated by max greene Wed, 11 May 2016.

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Wed, 11 May 2016 #6
Thumb_farside0411 m christani United States 650 posts in this forum Offline

max greene wrote:
Words, music, art, almost make one want to live forever.

:)

mike

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Wed, 11 May 2016 #7
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3349 posts in this forum Offline

max greene wrote:
Words, music, art, almost make one want to live forever.

And in the case of your first quote, to die happily and nobly, in a 'good cause' :-)

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Mon, 30 May 2016 #8
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3349 posts in this forum Offline

Time present and time past

Are both perhaps present in time future

And time future contained in time past.

If all time is eternally present

All time is unredeemable.

What might have been is an abstraction

Remaining a perpetual possibility

Only in a world of speculation.

What might have been and what has been

Point to one end, which is always present.

Footfalls echo in the memory

Down the passage which we did not take

Towards the door we never opened

Into the rose-garden. My words echo

Thus, in your mind.

But to what purpose

Disturbing the dust on a bowl of rose-leaves

I do not know.

This is the first stanza of "Burnt Norton", by T S Eliot, the first of his "Four Quartets"

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Thu, 02 Jun 2016 #9
Thumb_farside0411 m christani United States 650 posts in this forum Offline

...Where but to think is to be full of sorrow

And leaden-eyed despairs,

Where Beauty cannot keep her lustrous eyes,

Or new love pine at them beyond to-morrow.

from 'Ode to a Nightingale', John Keats

mike

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Thu, 02 Jun 2016 #10
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3349 posts in this forum Offline

m christani wrote:
..Where but to think is to be full of sorrow

Very true.

Where is this "where" in the poem?

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Thu, 02 Jun 2016 #11
Thumb_farside0411 m christani United States 650 posts in this forum Offline

That I might drink, and leave the world unseen,

And with thee fade away into the forest dim:

-

Fade far away, dissolve, and quite forget

What thou among the leaves hast never known,

The weariness, the fever, and the fret

Here, where men sit and hear each other groan; .....

mike

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Fri, 03 Jun 2016 #12
Thumb_2474 Dan McDermott United States 600 posts in this forum Offline

Whose woods these are I think I know.

His house is in the village, though;

He will not see me stopping here

To watch his woods fill up with snow.

My little horse must think it queer

To stop without a farmhouse near

Between the woods and frozen lake

The darkest evening of the year.

He gives his harness bells a shake

To ask if there is some mistake.

The only other sounds the sweep

Of easy wind and downy flake.

The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,

But I have promises to keep,

And miles to go before I sleep,

And miles to go before I sleep.

Robert Frost

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Fri, 03 Jun 2016 #13
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3349 posts in this forum Offline

m christani wrote:
Here, where men sit and hear each other groan; .....

Wow!

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Tue, 13 Sep 2016 #14
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3349 posts in this forum Offline

This being human is a guest house. 

Every morning is a new arrival.

 
A joy, a depression, a meanness, some momentary awareness comes as an unexpected visitor...

Welcome and entertain them all.

 
Treat each guest honorably.

 
The dark thought, the shame, the malice, meet them at the door laughing, and invite them in.

 
Be grateful for whoever comes, because each has been sent as a guide from beyond. 

....... Rumi

This post was last updated by Clive Elwell Tue, 13 Sep 2016.

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Wed, 14 Sep 2016 #15
Thumb_2474 Dan McDermott United States 600 posts in this forum Offline

"Be grateful not for the friend's tenderness,

but for his tyranny.

So the arrogant beauty in you

can become a lover that weeps."

...Rumi

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Wed, 14 Sep 2016 #16
Thumb_stringio Juan E. Spain 391 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Clive Elwell wrote:
And in the case of your first quote, to die happily and nobly, in a 'good cause' :-)

An yet ...
... those words need for something more before one can die happily and nobly, in a 'good cause'

Let's see ...

This post was last updated by Juan E. (account deleted) Wed, 14 Sep 2016.

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Wed, 14 Sep 2016 #17
Thumb_stringio Juan E. Spain 391 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Talking about poetry, here's a poem someone wrote by me using my hands in 1975 (17yo)

Para nacer vine (To be born i came)
Vine para amar (I came to love)
Para amar viví (To love i lived)
Viví para morir (I lived to die)
Para morir vine (To die i came)

And i say 'someone wrote by me', because after having wrote it all at once and without any correction, in reading it my bodily hair stood on end, not understanding neither why nor how it was that i wrote that (and even now it is still a mystery to me).

Let's see ...

This post was last updated by Juan E. (account deleted) Wed, 14 Sep 2016.

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Thu, 15 Sep 2016 #18
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3349 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E. wrote:
not understanding neither why nor how it was that i wrote that

Sounds like creation was working through you, Juan.

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Fri, 16 Sep 2016 #19
Thumb_stringio Juan E. Spain 391 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Clive Elwell wrote:
Sounds like creation was working through you, Juan.

Don't know Clive, the only thing i know is that they were not referring to me (and still they are not), especially the third line ... That's why it still remains a mystery to me ... Perhaps those words were just a kind of map about life and living ... I don't really know.

Let's see ...

This post was last updated by Juan E. (account deleted) Fri, 16 Sep 2016.

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Wed, 21 Sep 2016 #20
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3349 posts in this forum Offline

We shall not cease from exploration

And the end of all our exploring

Will be to arrive where we started

And know the place for the first time.

. . . . . . . T.S Eliot ( from Little Gidding)

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Mon, 14 Nov 2016 #21
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3349 posts in this forum Offline

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

The Bible, Ecclesiastes 3 (King James Version)

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Mon, 14 Nov 2016 #22
Thumb_stringio Juan E. Spain 391 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Clive Elwell wrote:
To every thing there is a season...

I knew of this words long, long time ago from THE BYRDS song "Turn!, Turn!, Turn!" which happen to be a cover version of a song written by PETE SEEGER in the late 50's, based in these words from the Ecclesiastes ...

Tonight, right now, i've gone to Spotify to listen again the original version and the versions from The Byrds and others ... And tears came out naturally from the eyes in listening again these words, and i felt in the heart that i had a good friend in you.

I think that you'll agree with me that words coming out from the heart can not be labelled as Christian, Buddhist, Krishnamurtian, or whatever ... Because they belong to nobody but to all of our hearts ... if one knows how to listen to them without such divisions.

Thanks Clive, and yes i do appreciate the beauty and dignity of the old English tongue, as well as that of the old Spanish tongue that many Spaniards consider tedious and boring to read nowadays ... But we know that beauty is beauty and it is always there to be contemplated no matter all our opinions about it that prevents us from really seeing it.

Going to sleep now, listen to you tomorrow ... Good night! ... juan.

Let's see ...

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Tue, 15 Nov 2016 #23
Thumb_rodin_de_denker Olive B Netherlands 167 posts in this forum Offline

Lao Tzu’s Tao Te Ching by Stephen Mitchell

The Tao that can be told

is not the eternal Tao

The name that can be named

is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternally real.

Naming is the origin

of all particular things.

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.

Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

Yet mystery and manifestations

arise from the same source.

This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.

The gateway to all understanding.

Experience alone must be the test of reality.

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Tue, 15 Nov 2016 #24
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3349 posts in this forum Offline

Olive B wrote:
Lao Tzu’s Tao Te Ching by Stephen Mitchell

Olive - or anyone - what do you understand by the last two lines?

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Tue, 15 Nov 2016 #25
Thumb_stringio Juan E. Spain 391 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Clive Elwell wrote:
Olive - or anyone - what do you understand by the last two lines?

Those two lines have remind me of an expression often used by Buddhist to describe what happens to the mind in the realization of emptiness (i.e.: the non-inherent existence neither of the self nor of phenomena) ...

Here's a quote from the Dalai Lama's book "Transcendent Wisdom" that uses such expression:

"At the initial moment of realization of emptiness, all dualistic appearances, even the most subtle, are completely gone. Then, like water pouring into water, there occurs an experience with no sense of distinction between subject and object."

Such emptiness is considered as a kind of darkness by many human minds.

My 2¢

Let's see ...

This post was last updated by Juan E. (account deleted) Tue, 15 Nov 2016.

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Wed, 16 Nov 2016 #26
Thumb_img_20150716_212047-1-1 richard viillar France 222 posts in this forum Offline

Olive B wrote:
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

Yet mystery and manifestations

arise from the same source.

This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.

The gateway to all understanding.

Darkness (emptiness) is manifestation (form) and manifestation is Darkness...

Manifestation: what appear as reality...

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Wed, 16 Nov 2016 #27
Thumb_rodin_de_denker Olive B Netherlands 167 posts in this forum Offline

Clive, the Tao is difficult to understand, but remember every verse(81) point to the only way.

The Tao is the mystery within the mistery eternally real, the unnamable.

A mysterie in a mysterie, darkness in darkness.

The only way where we can experience the Tao is in our self.

The Tao is the gateway to the eternally real.

Experience alone must be the test of reality.

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Wed, 16 Nov 2016 #28
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3349 posts in this forum Offline

Olive B wrote:
The only way where we can experience the Tao is in our self.

The Tao is the gateway to the eternally real.

It may be difficult to understand, but doesn't understanding come through questioning?

Perhaps the only way we can experience ANYTHING is in our self?

So is the Tao something with ..... how to put this? ...... an independent existence?

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Thu, 17 Nov 2016 #29
Thumb_rodin_de_denker Olive B Netherlands 167 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
It may be difficult to understand, but doesn't understanding come through questioning?

The Tao is not only difficult to understand but also difficult to explain because words are missing the point. I rather use the word investigate than understanding, because understanding implies there is something to learn.
You have to investigate what is happening in your self real slowly. That is only possible when your mind is quiet.

Clive Elwell wrote:
Perhaps the only way we can experience ANYTHING is in our self?

You are right Clive, you can only experience in the body. Experience comes form knowing and knowing from the mind. How do you know that you have an experience? because you know from the past what an experience is.

Clive Elwell wrote:
So is the Tao something with ..... how to put this? ...... an independent existence?

The Tao is the the moment you are invited in to the eternally real(the truth).
Every time you get to choose whether you stay in the illusionairy world or go beyond it.

The Tao has the ability to multiply itself, thus the invitations are becoming more frequent.

The Tao is the gateway, the threshold, to the eternally real, the comprehensive, the unborn, the uncreated, the unmanifested, pure consciousness.

Experience alone must be the test of reality.

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Thu, 17 Nov 2016 #30
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 3349 posts in this forum Offline

Olive B wrote:
Every time you get to choose whether you stay in the illusionairy world or go beyond it.

Well, there is a lot to consider in what you say, Olive. I would like to take up this idea of "Getting to choose", if I may.

If there is such a choice, what is the basis for it? And what is it that chooses?

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