Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
A Quiet Space | moderated by Clive Elwell

Quantum Theory and the Mind


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Fri, 06 May 2016 #1
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5098 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Kesting wrote: " Some
physists....consider quantum mechanics
despite its myriad successes and the
absence of failures, incomplete.

I am fairly sure that any theory invented by the brain to explain the workings of the natural universe will be incomplete – because knowledge is always incomplete. But my god! QT is fascinating! Many writers on the subject question whether any one really understands it (presumably excepting themselves).

Do you know the Buddhist/Hindu story of the blind men and the elephant? If not I will tell it, because it is the best story I know.

You must know what Bohr replied to Einstein's comment about God not governing the Universe by throwing dice? It was “Don't tell god what to do” :-).

But we were talking of determinism. You would know that Bohm suggested his theory of “hidden variables” - so there may be deterministic rules underlying the behavour of things, but we are unable to see them.

Speaking personally, yes, I do have difficulty in accepting something can happen without a cause – just like I have difficulty in accepting that the Big bang created something from nothing, and apparently that continues to happen. But I do not give an absolute importance to my difficulties, as I recognise that “common sense” is a wholly inadequate tool to approach the world of the atom and beyond. Common sense here is just the conditioning I have absorbed by living in the world.

So much to say!

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #2
Thumb_farside0411 m christani United States 650 posts in this forum Offline

I wish I knew more on these things because I've always been fascinated by theoretical physics, but does anyone know anything of String Theory? Practically unobservable vibrating strings, energy (I think), vibrating at the heart of all things, like a symphony. It just feels so right...

mike

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #3
Thumb_stringio Hari Govind India 42 posts in this forum Offline

Maybe the universe within holds just as many mysteries. The pursuit of outward knowledge is many a time a refuge, no?

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #4
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 1324 posts in this forum Offline

How does what Krishnamurti had to say tie to quantum physics and to science in general? This is an important question, because surely what he said and what science has uncovered must be together, or else one or the other is misleading and in need of correction.

max

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #5
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 1324 posts in this forum Offline

Perhaps both are misleading! It has been found that the universe is 27% dark matter and about 70% dark energy. About these two "darks" little to nothing is known. So here we are, maybe 5% of the universe, claiming to "know" and to speak for the other 95% of the universe.

max

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #6
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5098 posts in this forum Offline

m christani wrote:
but does anyone know anything of String Theory? Practically unobservable vibrating strings, energy (I think), vibrating at the heart of all things, like a symphony. It just feels so right...

Yes, I felt exactly that when I first read about it- it felt so right. But I believe the theoreticians have not been able to make much headway with the concept - the maths turns out to be so complex.

Bohm once tried a model of the universe consisting of endless silver balls, each reflecting all the others :-)

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #7
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5098 posts in this forum Offline

Hari Govind wrote:
Maybe the universe within holds just as many mysteries. The pursuit of outward knowledge is many a time a refuge, no?

One thing science has never done is take away my sense of mystery about the universe. I do not see how it ever could.

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #8
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5098 posts in this forum Offline

Hari Govind wrote:
The pursuit of outward knowledge is many a time a refuge, no?

I would say that there could be many factors behind the pursuit of knowledge (outward or inward, is there any real difference?). Often it is for financial gain, as part of a career. Or even if there is not much financial rewards, there is position, power, as reward. But also I like to think that the pursuit of scientific knowledge may be one of the noblest activities of human beings, from pure curiosity, the desire to discover about the universe. Of course it has also lead to some very destructive inventions.

Will you say more, Hari, about the pursuit being a refuge?

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #9
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5098 posts in this forum Offline

max greene wrote:

max greene
United States
1272 posts in this forum
Online
How does what Krishnamurti had to say tie to quantum physics and to science in general?

I don't know the answer to this, i would be very interested to learn.

It is clear that he was interested in technical developments in so far as they might affect society - AI, atomation, genetic engineering, etc. Also he seemed to have an interest and appreciation for the fruits of science, like watches, shavers, cars, engines - he found a beauty in them, I think.

This is an important question, because
surely what he said and what science
has uncovered must be together, or
else one or the other is misleading
and in need of correction.

Have you found that they are not together, Max? I myself have never found any contradiction. Of course he investigated areas where science has never really travelled, especially the realm of consciousness.

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #10
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5098 posts in this forum Offline

Juan Eyegaray wrote:
Forgive me to step in without being invited

Juan, i hope no one has ever found that they were not welcome on any thread.

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #11
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5098 posts in this forum Offline

Juan Eyegaray wrote:
You may find also some very interesting things here.

emmm .... there is quite a lot of material on your second link, Juan! Are you pointing to anywhere in particular?

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #12
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 1324 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
Have you found that they are not together [Krishnamurti and science]. . . ?

No, I haven't. I haven't actually been on the look-out for differences.

max

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #13
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

K used the word mind different ways ,a mind collective of memories ,thoughts ,emotions feelings and experiences,this mind is in the head of man and is limited by the time, is time ,other times he used the word mind that is out side the skull ,so out of time is free of all limitation about which time knows nothing ,

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #14
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

science comes under the limited mind as it is limited it self , scientists do not make any theories,they just bring it out that is there in the universe,

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #15
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

what is difficult to understand ,how brain that is ultimately made up of subatomic particles, as matter records memories

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #16
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 1324 posts in this forum Offline

david sharma wrote:
. . . scientists do not make any theories . . .

Physicists have created a questionable "string theory." Ptolemy held that the sun and planets revolve around the earth. Some of the best scientists believed in an ether throughout space and the existence of an "ether wind."

Scientists have been wrong many times over throughout history. Was Krishnamurti ever wrong? We are reluctant to ask this question

max

This post was last updated by max greene Fri, 06 May 2016.

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #17
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

time in the mind is born as memories as thoughts emotions feelings as thinker, and this thinker that is an illusion ,feels so real and acts as real ,just like a tv picture though it is a dance of electrons on the screen makes three dimensional picture in the brain

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #18
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

this time is an illusion ,time as self ,as thinker and thought this time as self wants to become ,search ,seek it can never become ,an illusion can not become ,it must end as illusion,

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #19
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 2640 posts in this forum Online

Good one David...thank you. #19

Let it Be

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #20
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

science can not do this as it is part of this time ,what will end this ?

This post was last updated by david sharma Fri, 06 May 2016.

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #21
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

k made a profound statement ,it is love only can see ,nothing else,

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #22
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

love is not in the brain of man ,it is not in time as self

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #23
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

love is seeing is ending of this illusion of time

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #24
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 1324 posts in this forum Offline

It is impossible to have love, just as it is impossible to be aware. There is no entity who "has" or who "is."

max

This post was last updated by max greene Fri, 06 May 2016.

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #25
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

Science being part of the whole can do that sir part can not see whole ,it must step out to do that

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #26
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

yes max no entity no self no who , no time

This post was last updated by david sharma Fri, 06 May 2016.

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #27
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

love IS

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #28
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

not in mind of man

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #29
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 1324 posts in this forum Offline

Love is to live 100% in the present. No past brought forward. No future hoped for.

max

This post was last updated by max greene Fri, 06 May 2016.

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Fri, 06 May 2016 #30
Thumb_avatar david sharma Ireland 740 posts in this forum Offline

max sir IS is

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Displaying posts 1 - 30 of 69 in total
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