Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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What irritates us is an opportunity ...


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Sat, 13 Feb 2016 #1
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 525 posts in this forum Offline

"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." (Carl Jung)

Generally when something irritates us, we react ... most often the reaction means a personal attack to the messenger, instead of 'getting' his message ...

But doing so the problems persist ("what you resist persists") ... they will come back in one form or another (time) because those 'messengers' are 'sent' (for lack of better word) for us to understand their 'message' ... and when fighting the messenger we refuse their message ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Sat, 13 Feb 2016 #2
Thumb_stringio David T United Kingdom 150 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Hi Jean,
'To condemn the selfishness of another,condemns oneself to selfishness'.

I am a figment of my and your imagination

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Sat, 13 Feb 2016 #3
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 525 posts in this forum Offline

David T wrote:
'To condemn the selfishness of another,condemns oneself to selfishness'.

Hello David,

Another version of "Do not judge and you will not be judged" :-)

However what is pointed here is slightly different ... it means that we can have a radically different behaviour when facing difficulties or discomforts or personal conflicts or contradictions ... either we resist and react ... or we embrace those as opportunities to learn and understand ourselves ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Sat, 13 Feb 2016 #4
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 2513 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
But doing so the problems persist ("what you resist persists") ... they will come back in one form or another (time) because those 'messengers' are 'sent' (for lack of better word) for us to understand their 'message' ... and when fighting the messenger we refuse their message ...

But some messages are total b.s....only meant to provoke, as you know all to well from being on the general forum. What's to understand there? When someone says 'you're an idiot', for instance, simply because they disagree with one of your posts...or to make themselves feel superior. This kind of thing leads nowhere, so it makes no sense to try to 'understand' the message. It's not clear how that kind of provocation can lead anywhere meaningful.

Let it Be

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Sat, 13 Feb 2016 #5
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 525 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
But some messages are total b.s....only meant to provoke, as you know all to well from being on the general forum. What's to understand there?

Well Tom that's exactly it and it is an important issue. If someone provokes or insults you there are 2 possibilities:


  • either you don't mind and you just ignore the provocation


  • or you feel the urge to react to this provocation, then it means something has been 'triggered' inside, some of your 'buttons' have been pushed, some self image has been damaged, and it is time to take a deep breath and 'absorb the shock' rather than react and retaliate ... and examine in yourself the emotion and understand where it comes from ... probably from some old 'unresolved' hurts which have not been integrated in the conscious (ie. suppressed memories) ...


There is absolutely no need for an insult to trigger your emotional reaction. If it does then something has to be solved within yourself.

Why resist 'what is' ?

This post was last updated by Jean Gatti Sat, 13 Feb 2016.

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Sat, 13 Feb 2016 #6
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 2513 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
There is absolutely no need for an insult to trigger your emotional reaction.

I understand your point... makes sense. Of course when an emotional reaction occurs it does no good to deny. I thought you were implying that there was some important meaning being conveyed in every message sent. " those 'messengers' are 'sent' (for lack of better word) for us to understand their 'message"

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Sat, 13 Feb 2016.

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Sat, 13 Feb 2016 #7
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 525 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
I thought you were implying that there was some important meaning being conveyed in every message sent.

Right Tom, the meaning does not reside in the message itself but in the emotional reaction it triggers in you ... this is why it is absurd to fight the messenger and important to listen to your 'heart' (which is the emotional center within you) ... and 'heart' here means both the symbolic heart as well as the physical heart, because the physical heart is always involved in your emotions (beats faster etc) ...

and listening to your heart is only possible if you remain in a state of attention, which also implies the absence of reactive thought (which is inattention) ... but for this you have to face some discomfort, because ego urges you to react ... instead you will have to 'feel the pain' ... and not look for an escape ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Sat, 13 Feb 2016 #8
Thumb_leaping_fire_frog_by_sirenofchaos natarajan shivan India 84 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Of course when an emotional reaction occurs it does no good to deny.

What often happens however is that, by stating that the offended is at fault, the button pushers are let loose, when they are pointed out of their doing they immediately court the logic of offended being at fault, escaping from the fact that button pushing itself is an emotional reaction.

As I see, some people can ride over their feelings which is easily misinterpreted as them having a sense of understanding over it.

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Sat, 13 Feb 2016 #9
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 2513 posts in this forum Offline

natarajan shivan wrote:
What often happens however is that, by stating that the offended is at fault, the button pushers are let loose, when they are pointed out of their doing they immediately court the logic of offended being at fault,

Good point...important to point this out as it happens more often than many of us realize.

Let it Be

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Sat, 13 Feb 2016 #10
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 525 posts in this forum Offline

natarajan shivan wrote:
What often happens however is that, by stating that the offended is at fault, the button pushers are let loose, when they are pointed out of their doing they immediately court the logic of offended being at fault, escaping from the fact that button pushing itself is an emotional reaction.

Not necessarily Nat, sometimes buttons are being pushed without the 'offender' even realizing he is pushing buttons and 'offending' ...

Let us not forget that truth is oftentimes the biggest 'provocation' or challenge for egos ...

An old adage says "Give a horse to the man who tells the truth" (so that he can fly away quickly)

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Sat, 13 Feb 2016 #11
Thumb_leaping_fire_frog_by_sirenofchaos natarajan shivan India 84 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Not necessarily Nat, sometimes buttons are being pushed without the 'offender' even realizing he is pushing buttons and 'offending' ...

That is what I was getting at, it is almost an act out of their own lack of awareness that it takes others to point it out.

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Sat, 13 Feb 2016 #12
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 2513 posts in this forum Offline

It's often unconscious.

Let it Be

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Sat, 13 Feb 2016 #13
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 525 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
It's often unconscious.

Right Tom, and it is so because the nature of those emotional 'buttons' differ from one person to another ... some might be very upset by some words while others will totally ignore them ... our hurts are the result of our past experience and suppressed memories (unconscious) ... and each life experience is different ... of course there are similitudes like the fear to be abandoned or the fear to die etc ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Sat, 13 Feb 2016 #14
Thumb_leaping_fire_frog_by_sirenofchaos natarajan shivan India 84 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
It's often unconscious.

Quite, it appears more as an attempt towards emotional manipulation to me, knowing exactly what to say to push the button.

This post was last updated by natarajan shivan Sat, 13 Feb 2016.

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Sat, 13 Feb 2016 #15
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 525 posts in this forum Offline

natarajan shivan wrote:
Quite, it appears more as a sort of emotional manipulation to me, knowing exactly what to say to push the button.

Yes, as long as 'buttons' can be pushed you can easily be 'manipulated' ...

How are you going to 'neutralize' those 'touchy' buttons then ?

??

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Sat, 13 Feb 2016 #16
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 2513 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

It's often unconscious.
Right Tom, and it is so because the nature of those emotional 'buttons' differ from one person to another ... some might be very upset by some words while others will totally ignore them ... our hurts are the result of our past experience and suppressed memories (unconscious) ..

I meant that the button pusher is often unconscious of his motive/s

Let it Be

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