Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Seeking


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Fri, 19 Nov 2010 #1
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Several people recently have raised the question of 'seeking,' in one or two cases quite forcefully. It seems that there is something people do or get caught up in called 'seeking' and yet it is never made clear what this activity is.

As someone who has never personally been caught up in this thought form I have nevertheless assumed I knew what people were talking about but now it is time for a reality check. I do not know what seeking is. Please tell me.

It appears from what has been said that seeking often ends in disillusionment, inertia and mental illness. So, why do you go in for it? But please tell me what it is. I feel I really should know.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

This post was last updated by Paul Davidson (account deleted) Fri, 19 Nov 2010.

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Sat, 20 Nov 2010 #2
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 579 posts in this forum Offline

Why do people read spiritual books? Why do they pursue spiritual teachers? Why do many meditate, pray, go to religious services? Why do they think about these matters?

They see turmoil. In the world, in their relationships, in themselves. And they are wondering what to do about it. They see conflict, within themselves and with others. And they want to do something about it. But they don't know what to do. So they seek. They seek for a way out of this mess. Isn't this reasonable?

But there's no way out. There's only in. Going into it all. Seeing into the total situation. With complete seeing, there can be full stop, stillness. In silence and openness, conflict ends. Love ripples out in relationship. Transformation is.

There's a kind of not-seeking which is complacency. If I throw up my hands and say there is nothing to be done, then the violent warmongers swarm on. Then turmoil continues.

But if I allow the destructiveness I see in myself and around myself to give urgency to my own investigation, not seeking a preconceived ideal, but finding out the truth of the situation, then I take responsibility for change that is needed. Now.

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Sat, 20 Nov 2010 #3
Thumb_stringio nick carter United States 777 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

idiot ? wrote:
But if I allow the destructiveness I see in myself and around myself to give urgency to my own investigation, not seeking a preconceived ideal, but finding out the truth of the situation, then I take responsibility for change that is needed. Now.

Do you see "the destructiveness" in yourself or are you the destructiveness? Is there a you apart from it?

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Sat, 20 Nov 2010 #4
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 579 posts in this forum Offline

nick carter wrote:
Do you see "the destructiveness" in yourself or are you the destructiveness? Is there a you apart from it?

We tend to see conflict, destructiveness within as apart from ourselves, at first. We imagine a step-back observer apart from our anger, greed, cruelty, or whatever. But as you imply and K points out, the observer is the observed. I am the conflict, destructiveness or whatever. Although thought fragments the self, all thinking is the self, including the so called witness and the flow of various thoughts.

So first I see my destructiveness. Then I realize I am the destructiveness. Then I can do nothing. Then there's transformation.

This is formulaic K. Does it work? I say yes. Each person has to check it out and see if it so.

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Sat, 20 Nov 2010 #5
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

idiot ? wrote:
They see turmoil. In the world, in their relationships, in themselves. And they are wondering what to do about it. They see conflict, within themselves and with others. And they want to do something about it. But they don't know what to do. So they seek. They seek for a way out of this mess. Isn't this reasonable?

I don't know if it is reasonable, Idiot. Rationality is always logical extrapolotion from a presept and doesn't it depend upon the nature of the precept whether any particular example of rationalisation has a rational basis. The point is that rationality is not by any means goodness although goodness must be rational, ordered.

I see the horror of conflict but I do not seek a way out. I am drawn, despite the difficulties, to seeing deeper, and I feel that this is entirely different than seeking. There is motivation but not from a precept, such as escape.

Now, why do so many human beings seek? What is the deep feeling behind it? And, what does it actually involve?

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

This post was last updated by Paul Davidson (account deleted) Sat, 20 Nov 2010.

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Sat, 20 Nov 2010 #6
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
Now, why do so many human beings seek? What is the deep feeling behind it?

Is this due to an illusion that something new can be found by seeking?

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Sat, 20 Nov 2010 #7
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Is this due to an illusion that something new can be found by seeking?

Is this it, Kapila? Is it the search for something truly new - untainted? Which is, my life is a mess and I want to leave the mess behind and go someplace fresh? But then, do I not take the mess with me? I am that mess and I am looking for someone or something to wash me clean. Is it like the search for the holy grail, a totem of purity in a maligned world?

Searching for a solution to a problem is one thing. Inquiring into the terrible state of society is another thing. But this word 'seeking' points to something more than that. I think it is used differently. It is not only inquiry or finding solutions to problems. There is the hint of desparation about it, camaflaged beneath an aura of spirituality. I have never been a seeker so I don't know. The word is used freely and I am questioning it.

Do we have any seekers here who could throw some light (or darkness) on the matter? What are you seeking?

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Sat, 20 Nov 2010 #8
Thumb_stringio nick carter United States 777 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

It all depends on what you're seeking. Are you seeking salvation or distraction, enlightenment or amusement, an end or a beginning? To speak of seeking without reference to what is meaningless.

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Mon, 22 Nov 2010 #9
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
But then, do I not take the mess with me?

That is how I have understood it too. I am seeking for a solution & the illusion is I am unaware I am the mess & I can only seek something I project which is part of the mess.

So it's a question of what is search & what is inquiry as you have pointed out.If we proceed to find out what goodness is we can only think of something we already have.That leaves us with the only option of looking at our present state, not at the solution.I believe you meant this.That's how I have understood it.

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Mon, 22 Nov 2010 #10
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

nick carter wrote:
To speak of seeking without reference to what is meaningless.

Yes. A solution to human suffering. Say goodness. Can we seek it? Is it possible?

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Mon, 22 Nov 2010 #11
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Yes. A solution to human suffering. Say goodness. Can we seek it? Is it possible?

So, are we saying that what is called 'seeking' is the search for a solution, which must entail or encourage an externalisation, a movement of attention to the external (even to the internal-external, the search for a superior self), while what is called 'inquiry' is an inward movement of attention, a deepening of it, a search for the cause of suffering, even albeit fired by the need to resolve that same suffering?

All of which means that inquiry, potentially, is a radical movement to reach to the root while seeking is an escape into the superficial and ephemeral, changing one set of painful illusions for another.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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