Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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One little step to the enlightenment:


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Wed, 23 Jun 2010 #1
Thumb_avatar Another Time United Kingdom 61 posts in this forum Offline

Positive attitude.

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Wed, 23 Jun 2010 #2
Thumb_avatar Another Time United Kingdom 61 posts in this forum Offline

Patience.

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Wed, 23 Jun 2010 #3
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 749 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

It seems it is only thought/time that is 'patient/impatient'. When all is right here, when nothing is expected/waited for, no patience is needed. :-)

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Wed, 23 Jun 2010 #4
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 749 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

It seems all/any 'attitude' is always towards an idea/thought of something. Without any idea of "enlightenment" (or any other idea psychilogically), no attitude is needed is it, neither negative nor positive.

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Thu, 24 Jun 2010 #5
Thumb_avatar Another Time United Kingdom 61 posts in this forum Offline

You can use an idea to "contain something" which isn't an idea.

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Thu, 24 Jun 2010 #6
Thumb_avatar Another Time United Kingdom 61 posts in this forum Offline

It seems... what is seeming something by the way?

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Thu, 24 Jun 2010 #7
Thumb_avatar Another Time United Kingdom 61 posts in this forum Offline

Balance.

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Thu, 24 Jun 2010 #8
Thumb_avatar Another Time United Kingdom 61 posts in this forum Offline

Sensitivity.

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Fri, 25 Jun 2010 #9
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 749 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

'You can use an idea to "contain something" which isn't an idea."

Yes, great. One senses the essence of all/any idea (thought) is absence of it, absence of any content

Or in other words: the origin of thought/idea is silence.

(of course when thought identifies with itself creating the observer and the observed, the real source of it is clouded because thought in that dualistic state generates/maintains itself through continuous reaction to itself and connection with its own origin is lost)

This post was last updated by Mina Martini (account deleted) Fri, 25 Jun 2010.

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Sat, 26 Jun 2010 #10
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

plunge.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Sat, 26 Jun 2010 #11
Thumb_avatar Another Time United Kingdom 61 posts in this forum Offline

That is VERY INTERESTING.

'You can use an idea to "contain something" which isn't an idea."

Yes, great. One senses the essence of all/any idea (thought) is absence of it, absence of any content

Or in other words: the origin of thought/idea is silence.

Let's suppose that observer "is just only pushing /let's suppose in loose way that thinkig as process is some kind natural energy movement/" the thoughts and is not really part of it - the thought doesn't belong to observer - it is only moving inside observer: the observer can see it's movement within short time (be aware of thoughts); then after short (or some) time it disapears or is out of the observer view (can still exist outside observer)
So: within some time the thougts "belongs" to observer or seems to belong to observer...

Probably most of us think that we are thinking! And if "I think" is single movement energy inside observer the "i am thinking" is another single movement energy inside observer - they can exist together within observer- they can interfere, they can mix up and so on.

And if the thoughts are more, much more they are creating specific pattern inside observer...

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Sat, 26 Jun 2010 #12
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 749 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Hello Lord, (have never addressed a Lord before :-) )

"Light Lord:Let's suppose that observer "is just only pushing /let's suppose in loose way that thinkig as process is some kind natural energy movement/" the thoughts and is not really part of it - the thought doesn't belong to observer - it is only moving inside observer: the observer can see it's movement within short time (be aware of thoughts); then after short (or some) time it disapears or is out of the observer view (can still exist outside observer) So: within some time the thougts "belongs" to observer or seems to belong to observer..."

m: you are here well describing, if my understanding is correct, how the flow of thoughts is experienced when there is an observer which is assumed to be separate from the coming/going thoughts. any appearing thought is then experienced (thought) to belong to this observer, or we could say that every appearing thought becomes dualistic through the belief that it is also involving an entity separate from it, an entity who is thinking, who has the thought, to whom the thought comes/belongs etc.

"It was MY idea", we say in self-satisfaction when an excellent idea appears, not seeing that it really came from nowhere to no one! :-)

"We think that we are thinking", that is a great description of the kind of thinking that implies the thought of a thinker as separate from an appering thought . The absolute negation of the 'we think that we are thinking' would be 'not knowing that one is not knowing' (to know=to think).
And as this identification keeps happening continuously, with any/all thoughts coming and going, a belief of a separate continuing observer "who is always there, who does not disapper with the disappering thought", is born. This is seen to be a false belief.(any belief/idea is as true as ideas can ever be!).This is why even a small space/gap between thoughts puts an end to the observer which is a thought!

Light Lord:"Probably most of us think that we are thinking! And if "I think" is single movement energy inside observer the "i am thinking" is another single movement energy inside observer - they can exist together within observer- they can interfere, they can mix up and so on."

m: what feels to need a clarification in the above, is that you seem to present the observer as something 'within which' dualistic thought is born. one sees the observer IS the "i think i am thinking", in itself.

This post was last updated by Mina Martini (account deleted) Tue, 29 Jun 2010.

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Sun, 27 Jun 2010 #13
Thumb_avatar Murray C Australia 10 posts in this forum Offline

It appears that something needs to be understood, but not in order to achieve something, or for someone.

This post was last updated by Murray C Sun, 27 Jun 2010.

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Mon, 28 Jun 2010 #14
Thumb_avatar Another Time United Kingdom 61 posts in this forum Offline

Hello Lord, (have never addressed a Lord before :-) )...
...

Mina, after considering our discussion, from distance of time, I think that you have great potential, your 'solving' of thinking observer and thoughts is really nice and smooth. Also it is very warming... but you are not aware that discussion slowly turn into "dead end" where you redirected it gradually - you should be more watchful - most that of what you think that you know can be based on uncertain base - assumptions. But after all I am quite impressed - return to the starting point and you will be just FINE. Try to base what you think only on that what is simple and undeniable.

"There are rumors that mind and it's thinking can be reversed from way it's thinking"

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Mon, 28 Jun 2010 #15
Thumb_avatar Another Time United Kingdom 61 posts in this forum Offline

Reverse.

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Tue, 29 Jun 2010 #16
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

Light Lord wrote:
Reverse.

is that the reason, quran to be read from right to left..
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Wed, 30 Jun 2010 #17
Thumb_avatar Another Time United Kingdom 61 posts in this forum Offline

is that the reason, quran to be read from right to left...

Some people for some reasons have deep inside them, dark egoistic nature - the problem is they don't aware of it. If you try explain this to them, what do you think will happen: obviously some kind resistance

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Wed, 30 Jun 2010 #18
Thumb_avatar Another Time United Kingdom 61 posts in this forum Offline

Non-resistance.

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Thu, 01 Jul 2010 #19
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

Light Lord wrote:
obviously some kind resistance

Murray C wrote:
It appears that something needs to be understood, but not in order to achieve something, or for someone.

dark egoistic nature/erutan citsioge krad
:)
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

This post was last updated by ganesan balachandran Thu, 01 Jul 2010.

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Thu, 01 Jul 2010 #20
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

One little step to the enlightenment:

disappear/vanish
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Thu, 01 Jul 2010 #21
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

Light Lord wrote:
Reverse.

ganesan balachandran wrote:
is that the reason, quran to be read from right to left.. gb

Per Götberg wrote:
I´m not very christian and I do not read the bible a lot. It is only that I read it with new eyes nowdays. All of a sudden it makes great sense to me. That´s all.

So it is not you Light Lord

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Thu, 01 Jul 2010 #22
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 749 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

One little step to the enlightenment:

disappear/vanish gb

Wonderful! That is the first/last step, and it is not a step taken in/by knowledge/thought. It has absolutely no knowledge of 'enlightenment' either. It is the very ending of time, of 'going towards enlightenment' (or towards any other image, makes no difference')

So, instead of 'becoming enlightened' (!!), it is only the ending of the false, the distorted, that matters!

Love to all

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Fri, 02 Jul 2010 #23
Thumb_avatar Another Time United Kingdom 61 posts in this forum Offline

"So, instead of 'becoming enlightened' (!!), it is only the ending of the false, the distorted, that matters!"

The problem is, deciding what is true or false without the knowledge can't be decided;

What will you do if the knowledge is false itself?

The knowledge determine true or false.

If the knowledge is false what is determined?

What will you do if the ending the false is false itself?

Maybe the proble is not where the false ending, but where it starting.

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Sat, 03 Jul 2010 #24
Thumb_avatar Murray C Australia 10 posts in this forum Offline

One little step to enlightment.

The present appears to be a movement, an ongoing creation. If one sounds out a word, any old word, and holds it to be heard, ie Ohmmmmmmmm. the sound appears to flow as a movement flows. If I try to change its speed, the sound only gets deeper if I try to slow it down, or higher if I try to speed it up. This sounds appears to flow with the present at a constant rate. Am I not also flowing with this present movement. If I am sitting, I am sitting, but still flowing as i sit. If one feels this flow, or is this flow, thought may not have the time to gather, what surfaces ends, Surely the step to enlightment could be to merely see what is actually happening, or better still be what is actually happening - as one is happening.

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Sat, 03 Jul 2010 #25
Thumb_avatar Another Time United Kingdom 61 posts in this forum Offline

The present appears to be a movement, an ongoing creation. If one...

Doubtfulness is your best friend.

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Sat, 03 Jul 2010 #26
Thumb_avatar Another Time United Kingdom 61 posts in this forum Offline

Doubtfulness

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Sun, 04 Jul 2010 #27
Thumb_avatar Murray C Australia 10 posts in this forum Offline

and how sure you appear to be.

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Sun, 04 Jul 2010 #28
Thumb_avatar Murray C Australia 10 posts in this forum Offline

Of course all descriptions are just that, and perhaps the word creation implies, nothing > something, so perhaps a closer fit would be evolving, but still its merely a description.
Yet the description posed can somewhat be explored.

To do that though, where does that put thought.
Yes their is resistance.

This post was last updated by Murray C Sun, 04 Jul 2010.

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Mon, 05 Jul 2010 #29
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

spontaneous.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Tue, 06 Jul 2010 #30
Thumb_avatar Harry Lener United States 1 post in this forum Offline

True Enlightenment is the complete isolation from human interaction.
Which is the ultimate suffering.

Harry

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