Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Mon, 07 Oct 2019 #151
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

Fear has presently dominated the world . Understanding fear is the most importance. K says you are fear..

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Mon, 07 Oct 2019 #152
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1398 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
It seems irresponsible, negligent, that 'kinfonet' has for some reason allowed this general forum to exist without someone who cares about Krishnamurti's work, to be overseeing, moderating, what is being posted here. This is all too childish, it needs to be attended to. Or so it seems to me.

Commentaries on Living Series I | Chapter 30 'Anger'

Anger has that peculiar quality of isolation; like sorrow, it cuts one off, and for the time being, at least, all relationship comes to an end. Anger has the temporary strength and vitality of the isolated. There is a strange despair in anger; for isolation is despair. The anger of disappointment, of jealousy, of the urge to wound, gives a violent release whose pleasure is self-justification. We condemn others, and that very condemnation is a justification of ourselves. Without some kind of attitude, whether of self-righteousness or self-abasement, what are we? We use every means to bolster ourselves up; and anger, like hate, is one of the easiest ways. Simple anger, a sudden flare-up which is quickly forgotten, is one thing; but the anger that is deliberately built up, that has been brewed and that seeks to hurt and destroy, is quite another matter. Simple anger may have some physiological cause which can be seen and remedied; but the anger that is the outcome of a psychological cause is much more subtle and difficult to deal with. Most of us do not mind being angry, we find an excuse for it. Why should we not be angry when there is ill-treatment of another or of ourselves? So we become righteously angry. We never just say we are angry, and stop there; we go into elaborate explanations of its cause.
We never just say that we are jealous or bitter, but justify or explain it. We ask how there can be love without jealousy, or say that someone else's actions have made us bitter, and so on.

It is the explanation, the verbalization, whether silent or spoken, that sustains anger, that gives it scope and depth.

P.s.: bolding is mine !

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Mon, 07 Oct 2019 #153
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

Series I - Chapter 86 - ‘To See the False as the False’

Do we understand anything if we condemn it? To push it away, or to accept it, is easy; but the very condemnation or acceptance is an avoidance of the problem. To condemn a child is to push him away from you in order not to be bothered by him; but the child is still there. To condemn is to disregard, to pay no attention; and there can be no understanding through condemnation. “I have condemned myself for smoking, over and over again. It is difficult not to condemn.”

Yes, it is difficult not to condemn, for our conditioning is based on denial, justification, comparison and resignation. This is our background, the conditioning with which we approach every problem. This very conditioning breeds the problem, the conflict. You have tried to rationalize away the smoking, have you not? When you say it is stupid, you have thought it all out and come to the conclusion that it is stupid. And yet rationalization has not made you give it up. We think that we can be free from a problem by knowing its cause; but the knowing is merely information, a verbal conclusion. This knowledge obviously prevents the understanding of the problem. Knowing the cause of a problem and understanding the problem are two entirely different things.

“But how else can one approach a problem?”

That is what we are going to find out. When we discover what the false approach is, we shall be aware of the only approach. The understanding of the false is the discovery of the true. To see the false as the false is arduous. We look at the false through comparison, through the measure of thought; and can the false be seen as the false through any thought process? Is not thought itself conditioned and so false?

“But how can we know the false as the false without the thought process?”

This is our whole trouble, is it not? When we use thought to solve a problem, surely we are using an instrument which is not at all adequate; for thought itself is a product of the past, of experience. Experience is always in the past. To see the false as the false, thought must be aware of itself as a dead process. Thought can never be free, and there must be freedom to discover, freedom from thought.

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Tue, 08 Oct 2019 #154
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

My genuine interest in life is to understand krishnamurti fully. And this site is not helping at all with all the contradictions and silly talks..

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Tue, 08 Oct 2019 #155
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1398 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
My genuine interest in life is to understand krishnamurti fully. And this site is not helping at all with all the contradictions and silly talks..

My genuine interest is to understand life itself and by questioning what is going on saw at a certain point that what society/the church was/is telling didn't matches what they are doing.

Later in life came upon Krishnamurti and he inspired and still inspires me to also look within. IT'S an on going activity.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Tue, 08 Oct 2019 #156
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
My genuine interest in life is to understand krishnamurti fully. And this site is not helping at all with all the contradictions and silly talks..

Then leave this site. Your often irrational and irrelevant quotes of K, which you apparently don't understand, are part of the contradictions and silly posts. But, apparently, you can't see that because you are a true believer. A follower. That's why you quote K so often.

If you will take the time to notice K was more about the negation of what appears to be; conditioning, image making, etc than he was about spouting positive affirmations of what is. If you think you know you don't know, is something K frequently pointed out. Let go of your beliefs, your conditioning without replacing them with others.

Don't worry about understanding K. Be concerned with understanding yourself. I think this is what Wim was saying too.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Wed, 09 Oct 2019.

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Tue, 08 Oct 2019 #157
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

As I said before, anything that the devil says you should do the opposite. Because the devil is loveless.

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Tue, 08 Oct 2019 #158
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
As I said before, anything that the devil says you should do the opposite. Because the devil is loveless.

You are just verifying what I have pointed out about you several times. You are a true believer. You are still trapped in the conditioning of believing in the Devil, Jesus, God and all the other rot that is part of our common religious conditioning. And now you have added K to that belief system. He is your new messiah, new Jesus, your spiritual leader.

You sound so much like a fundamentalist Christian fanatic who goes around praising Jesus and quoting the Bible.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Wed, 09 Oct 2019.

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Tue, 08 Oct 2019 #159
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

Krishnamurti: You may remember that story of the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street and they saw a man ahead stoop down and pick up something from the road. And as he picked it up and looked at it he was very startled, there was a great delight in his face. And the friend of the devil asked, what was it that he picked up and the devil said, 'It's truth'. And the friend said, 'Isn't that a very bad business for you then?' The devil said, 'Not at all, I am going to help him to organise it'. (Laughter).

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Tue, 08 Oct 2019 #160
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:

One Self

United States

1363 posts in this forum

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Krishnamurti: You may remember that story of the devil and a friend of his were walking down the

This is just a story. A parable. A joke. It doesn't mean K believed in the devil.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Tue, 08 Oct 2019.

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Tue, 08 Oct 2019 #161
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

It is not a joke. You are a joke who makes a fool out of yourself and your friends. Go and look in the mirror and see how ugly you are becoming:)

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Tue, 08 Oct 2019 #162
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

The last thing that one wants to do is talk to an ugly devil who has been in wars and is deeply hurt.

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Tue, 08 Oct 2019 #163
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
The last thing that one wants to do is talk to an ugly devil who has been in wars and is deeply hurt.

You post like the ignorant, naïve little boy or girl that you obviously are.

I looked up your quote. It was easy enough. You left out the context from which your quote was taken so you could make a point. See the next post for the context from which you took your dishonest post on K talking about the devil.

You also edited out the word "laughter" which described the audience reaction to K's story about the devil organizing religion. This was a dishonest thing for you to do. Didn't your parents teach you to be honest?

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Wed, 09 Oct 2019.

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Tue, 08 Oct 2019 #164
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

Chap 7, 6th February, 1969, 4th Public Talk U of Cal, Berkeley:

Man is searching for something more than the transient. Probably from time immemorial he has been asking himself if there is something sacred, something that is not worldly, that is not put together by thought, by the intel- lect. He has always asked if there is a reality, a timeless state not invented by the mind, not projected by thought, but a state of mind where time does actually not exist: if there is something "divine", "sacred", "holy" (if one can use those words), that is not perishable. Organized religions seem to have supplied the answer. They say there is a reality, there is a God, there is something which the mind cannot possibly measure. Then they begin to organize what they consider to be the real and man is led astray. You may remember the story about the devil who was walking down the street with a friend; they saw a man ahead stoop down and pick up something from the road. And as he picked it up and looked at it there was a great delight in his face; the friend of the devil asked what it was that he had picked up and the devil said, "It is truth". The friend said, "Isn't that a very bad business for you?" The devil answered, "Not at all, I am going to help him organize it,. (Laughter)

The worship of an image made by the hand or by the mind and the dogmas and rituals of organized religion, with their sense of beauty, have become something very holy, very sacred. And so man, in his search for that which is beyond all measure, all time, has been caught, trapped, deceived, because he always hopes to find something which is not entirely of this world. After all, what actually have traditional, bureaucratic, capitalist, or Communist societies to offer? Very little except food, clothes and shelter. Perhaps one may have more opportunities for work or can make more money, but ultimately, as one observes, these societies have very little to offer; and the mind, if it is at all intelligent and aware, rejects it. Physiologically one needs food, clothes and shelter, that is absolutely essential. But when that becomes of the greatest importance, then life loses its marvelous meaning. So this evening it might be worthwhile spending some time to find out for ourselves if there really is something sacred, something which is not put together by thought, by circumstances, which is not the result of propaganda. It would be worthwhile, if we could, to go into this question, because unless one finds something that is not measurable by words, by thought, by any experience, life - that is, everyday living - becomes utterly superficial. Perhaps that is why (though maybe not) the present generation rejects this society and is looking for something beyond the everyday struggle, ugliness, brutality.

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Tue, 08 Oct 2019 #165
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

Communists were aggressive and rude and they failed. But the spirit of rudeness goes on. Nothing dies in human consciousness. The corruption goes on.

This post was last updated by One Self Tue, 08 Oct 2019.

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Tue, 08 Oct 2019 #166
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Communists were aggressive and rude and they failed. But the spirit of rudeness goes on. Nothing dies in human consciousness. The corruption goes on.

You are getting more and more irrational in your responses. Communists? What does that have to do with anything? Why not discuss the issue at hand? I showed where you purposely edited your quote to benefit the ridiculous point you were trying to make. Let's stick with that. What about it? You cheated. You see that right?

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Tue, 08 Oct 2019 #167
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

Jack I don't have time to get involved with your delusional mind. I don't need to edit any thing that krishnamurti said. You have problem with lauphter,it is very obvious. I didn't put that word in there(what for!). Step out of your selfmade delusions. Go and see a psychologist.

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Wed, 09 Oct 2019 #168
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

Jack is so messed up. He send me another trashy personal message. He doesn't see that if I open his junk mail I post it in here so that his friends see who they have been supporting in here. I don't open his trash otherwise I have to expose him as who he is. He is surely mentally retarded to think that I even open his junk.

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Wed, 09 Oct 2019 #169
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
You have problem with lauphter,it is very obvious. I didn't put that word in there(what for!).

Because it proved what I said originally. It was a joke, a funny story and that's why people laughed. K didn't believe in the devil. No one who has read K for a while and understands anything of what he pointed out would believe in a devil, a god or any of that crap. Organized religion is the invention of thought. It's a crutch, an escape, a drug. Why is that so hard for you to see? Because, like all of us, you have been conditioned since birth to believe in all of this religious crap. You, apparently, have not been able to see through that conditioning yet. See it for what it is. At least you're consistent. I'll give you that. You have single-handedly destroyed this part of the K forum.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Wed, 09 Oct 2019.

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Wed, 09 Oct 2019 #170
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

I know it's probably a waste of time but here is today's Daily Quote:

Krishnamurti Quote of the Day
Group Discussion 2nd December, 1947 | Madras, India
Mind is constantly wrapping itself in belief, belief in ideation, belief in memory, etc. Essentially we believe in order to be secure, not to get lost in the wood, to have a lighthouse, to have a point towards which thought is culminating, progressing, focusing. This focal point helps us to guide ourselves. A belief, whether physiological or psychological, is a necessity to him who is frightened. 'It is my experience and therefore I hold on to it as a guide, a conviction which helps me to progress in life.' Surely belief, a conclusion, a working hypothesis, a conviction, an experience which I hold on to as a guide, an ideal, a conviction which helps me to progress in life, are all merely a pattern, a mold in which the thought functions.

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Wed, 09 Oct 2019 #171
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

Can a false person become truthful? No. Can ugliness become beautiful? No. Every thing is what it is.

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Wed, 09 Oct 2019 #172
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

By the way Trump is obstructing justice right in front of everyone:)

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Wed, 09 Oct 2019 #173
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Can a false person become truthful? No. Can ugliness become beautiful? No. Every thing is what it is.

I urge you not to give up. Just because you tried to deceive us about your quote doesn't mean that you can't change. It doesn't, necessarily, mean you can't become an honest person. However, just as a suggestion, I think you have a real problem with irrational thoughts and posts. What does Trump have to do with any of this? Oh wait, I get it, he's the devil right? Well, I can't disagree with you on that.

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