Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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How does one go to the very source of thought?


Displaying posts 121 - 150 of 225 in total
Fri, 02 Aug 2019 #121
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1488 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Can we communicate here without always using past experience and knowledge as the source of what we write?

There is an interesting discussion regarding "negative thinking" going on on Clive's forum. 'Negative thought' can't be understood in the usual way or even defined but K. went into it at great length. What I get from it, that is new for me is the suggestion that the mind is enslaved in what he calls "positive thought"....And the 'seeing' of that enslavement is negative thought. Also that the mind can 'think' when freed from 'positive thought'...but it is a different kind of thought. And nothing can be done (in a positive sense?) to bring this about. Interesting and baffling. This from today's QOTD probably refers to it:

K. The mind is cunning and subtle in its self-defence, and it must discern for itself the illusory nature of self-protection. This means that you must think and act completely anew. You must liberate yourself from the net of false values which environment has imposed upon you. There must be utter nakedness. Then there is immortality, reality.

This post was last updated by Dan McDermott Fri, 02 Aug 2019.

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Fri, 02 Aug 2019 #122
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 836 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
For psychological thought to come to an end, which also means for psychological time to come to an end, doesn't there have to be an 'absolute clarity' as to what thought/time is?

In the video that Sean Hen cited at the beginning of this thread, K says that thought stops momentarily when a question is put, when an inquiry is made, and the initial feeling is, "I don't know."

Yes, it is very important to understand thought/time. And not just intellectually, because that understanding IS thought. But to see thought in operation. To watch it functioning. And how it permeates nearly everything.

However the point of this video, isn't it?, is that even without any insight into thought, there is a momentary suspension of thought, when a question is put, and there is the simple and true feeling of "I don't know." That little space when you look into any question, and briefly don't know, is of enormous significance. The self is uncomfortable with not knowing. The self is quick to shove not knowing aside. But not knowing is there. Always. At the beginning of any question honestly asked. Isn't it?

Another interesting angle on this is how K often answers a question with more questions. Asked about thought, he may reply, "Sir, what is thought?" So the invitation is there to go back to not knowing. To go back to the question mark.

And that is the invitation for us, too, we who have listened to K for so long and can quickly jump to the answer, to some known answer that comes from storing away so many K talks and books. Can we look anew? Can we ask freshly? Can we begin from not knowing?

This post was last updated by idiot ? Fri, 02 Aug 2019.

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Sun, 04 Aug 2019 #123
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

"And that is the invitation for us, too, we who have listened to K for so long and can quickly jump to the answer, to some known answer that comes from storing away so many K talks and books. Can we look anew? " Id..

Can I look anew without the old consciousness?

I think it is impossible to look without the old consiousnes active . But to be consious about the old consiousnes I think is the key.. does anyone relate to that other than one-self?:-)

This post was last updated by One Self Sun, 04 Aug 2019.

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Tue, 06 Aug 2019 #124
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 961 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Another interesting angle on this is how K often answers a question with more questions. Asked about thought, he may reply, "Sir, what is thought?" So the invitation is there to go back to not knowing. To go back to the question mark.

I think this going right back to the not knowing is indeed very intertesting. There's a certain element in this of looking at things in a very detached way, as if from the outside. There's also an element of exploring and finding out. In a way, this seems in contradiction to saying something is a "wrong question" or a "valid question" as both imply instant judgement but as I've said before, the exploration which comes after the question is the really interesting part.

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Tue, 06 Aug 2019 #125
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 836 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
saying something is a "wrong question" or a "valid question" as both imply instant judgement

I learned a new word: mondegreen. There is an interesting wikipedia article on it.

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Wed, 07 Aug 2019 #126
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5853 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:

Sean Hen wrote:
In a way, this seems in contradiction to saying something is a "wrong question" or a "valid question" as both imply instant judgement but as I've said before, the exploration which comes after the question is the really interesting part.

Yes it was the interesting part of the video. It was also the relevant part of the video since the question itself was a wrong question. That is why K didn't discuss the question asked until the end when he simply said the basis of thought is memory; experience and knowledge. Why is this even controversial on this site?

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Wed, 07 Aug 2019 #127
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

If you notice jack is intent to trash any new discussion posed by me and idiot in this forum. Fortunately there is death waiting with illnesses for evil people. Soon they fade away.

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Wed, 07 Aug 2019 #128
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 836 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Fortunately there is death waiting with illnesses for evil people. Soon they fade away.

To call someone here evil and wish them death is completely inappropriate and in violation of the rules of kinfonet. I also think that quoting someone and changing all the "you"s to "I"s is unfair and extremely disrespectful.

I understand that you've had problems with Jack Pine, as I obviously have. But the answer is not to attack back. K said that he would not return hate with hate. We all have to take that to heart. It is much better to not respond at all than to return violence for violence.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Wed, 07 Aug 2019.

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Wed, 07 Aug 2019 #129
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
To call someone here evil and wish them death is completely inappropriate and in violation of the rules of kinfonet.

First of all I am not the only one who has noticed evil at work in here. Secondly if it is about the regulations Jack should have been banned long ago for the use of faul languages thirdly I have stated the fact that ill will people die from illnesses sooner. And I don't need to wish anything death does it's work.

This post was last updated by One Self Wed, 07 Aug 2019.

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Wed, 07 Aug 2019 #130
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
I also think that quoting someone and changing all the "you"s to "I"s is unfair and extremely disrespectful.

So it is not disrespectful to attack "you"!

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Wed, 07 Aug 2019 #131
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

Everything I said and say is logical and factual. I have no fear of death or being banned in here. Let's get that sink in. Respectability is a curse as k says.

This post was last updated by One Self Wed, 07 Aug 2019.

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Wed, 07 Aug 2019 #132
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

It is not a matter of hate . Did krishnamurti hate when he said about the tribe that burned anybody who had an image about himself or others ? No he stated a logical thing. If Jack or anybody else tries to distort one's thinkig he or she gets a corresponding answer. That the action reaction law. Everybody has to be coconcerned with their own thinking and not others. I have stopped answering Jack's rubbish. That is why I send his respond to me back to him with the "I" for "you". The use of the word "you" with the intention of insults must be stopped or nothing new ever happens in here. Was it not krishnamurti who said "you" are the world ,"I" am the world,"I" am "you" Are the same so on. What is the fuss over me doing that!

This post was last updated by One Self Wed, 07 Aug 2019.

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Thu, 08 Aug 2019 #133
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 961 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
If you notice jack is intent to trash any new discussion posed by me and idiot in this forum. Fortunately there is death waiting with illnesses for evil people. Soon they fade away.

That is a terrible thing to write.

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Thu, 08 Aug 2019 #134
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

Death is waiting for everyone including you Sean. Obviously after reading so much Krishnamurti still afraid of the fact of death!
How many times have Krishnamurti said that the ego is evil. If anybody let his ego dominate this site then he is evil too. That is logic. That is sane.

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Thu, 08 Aug 2019 #135
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
You have no idea how you will deal with death until it comes knocking. Until that time, saying one is not frightened of it is the purest fantasy.

Are we not dealing with death every day (apart from this chatroom)? Is death something that knocks at your or my door in some distant future? Or life and death are together. One cannot exist without the other. So what is it that we are afraid of ? Isn't it life not death, no?

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Fri, 09 Aug 2019 #136
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 961 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
To call someone here evil and wish them death is completely inappropriate and in violation of the rules of kinfonet. I also think that quoting someone and changing all the "you"s to "I"s is unfair and extremely disrespectful.

"Completely inappropriate", "unfair" and "extremely disrespectful" are good ways to describe such an unfortunate post. Of course, you don't have to have read Krishnamurti to see that. It's just common decency not to treat people in this way.

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Fri, 09 Aug 2019 #137
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

I suggest idiot and Sean and... to keep judgments to themselves . What I said is true ,now get a life. And stop ganging up . I say that again if it is not clear.
The sense of antagonism is the fact in here . Your positive thinking and copying has come to a dead end. Learn from Krishnamurti and stop repeating and asking for respectability in here. You only isolate your own thinking.

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Fri, 09 Aug 2019 #138
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
One Self wrote:

If you notice jack is intent to trash any new discussion posed by me and idiot in this forum.

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Fri, 09 Aug 2019 #139
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

Now that idiot has ganged up with jack I think jack won't attack her\him anymore:)
This forum is all about ganging up against each other! I suggest to readers to directly refer to Krishnamurti and don't listen to any comments in here(including mine).

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Fri, 09 Aug 2019 #140
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

one self:
Fortunately there is death waiting with illnesses for evil people. Soon they fade away.

Sean wrote:
That is a terrible thing to write.

Are you terrified to read it? I doubt it.(I usually don't respond to Sean due to him being confused about K and asking irrelevant questions). K doesn't need questioning unless you are a beginner.

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Sat, 10 Aug 2019 #141
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
How does one find the truth of a matter for oneself? Does one think in term of acceptance or rejection? In that case one finds an authority and never find the truth of the matter for oneself. So to find the truth of the matter there has to be no authority worshiping of any kind . Then one can understand the matter through logic and relationship of things. Understanding is everything.

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Sat, 10 Aug 2019 #142
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

The above is what I wrote and Jack started to attack and insult with the "you" thing.!

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Sat, 10 Aug 2019 #143
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5853 posts in this forum Offline

That's because it is mistaken. Thought can not know truth according to k himself. You are confused again. Thought is the past. Time. Truth is not of time.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Sun, 11 Aug 2019.

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Sat, 10 Aug 2019 #144
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5853 posts in this forum Offline

The rest of what you wrote is, frankly, random and unsupported. Opinions and beliefs have to give way to facts at some point. Don't you think?

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Sat, 10 Aug 2019.

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #145
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5853 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Everything I said and say is logical and factual.

Actually it's anything but logical and factual. To present a logical argument the premises of that argument have to be facts that lead to logical conclusions. Your "premises" are often, or never facts but opinions, misunderstandings, etc. Your conclusions, therefore, are not supported by facts but belief and opinion.

What you are doing, apparently, is trying to turn this forum into your personal blog. That is not what this forum is dedicated to.

By the way, the non-name you identify with on this forum, One Self, has an obvious synonym; One Ego. Self is ego. Apparently you don't know that. At any rate you have picked a suitably accurate name for yourself.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Sun, 11 Aug 2019.

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #146
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
One Self wrote:

Everything I said and say is logical and factual.

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #147
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

I really don't care what jack writes. It is all abstraction around the "you" thing. As I said I have stopped reading his reactions . It is too beautiful of the day to be polluted by illusions that merely pollute the mind. As I said everything I say is true unless I make a mistake which is natural..

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #148
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

By the word "evil people" I mean those who use words like "you" and "they" or "them" to bring about division and conflict(war). It is an illness sadism . Sadism is an illness ,it is not a choice. It is an evil addiction .

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #149
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5853 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
By the word "evil people" I mean those who use words like "you" and "they" or "them"

You have the wit and awareness of a slow seven year old. You obviously don't see that classifying people as "evil" is actually a much more specific judgement than simply using the pronouns you, they and them. But then intelligence has never been your long suit.

One Self wrote:
As I said everything I say is true unless I make a mistake which is natural..

What is not natural is for someone to say the above about themselves and mean it. I am sure you are completely tone-deaf and have no idea of the absurdity and contradiction of your boastful statement above.

Too bad Dev doesn't moderate this forum anymore. That's also why new people can't join this forum. They get absolutely no response from Dev. I had someone who was thrown off another forum here write and tell me that recently.

You don't belong in this forum or any other adult forum. You would be more at home in a sand pile making "zooming" sounds while holding a toy truck in your hand.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Sun, 11 Aug 2019.

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #150
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1736 posts in this forum Offline

Again I careless reading jacks response to me but if anybody else cares to quote him I will read only that and respond accordingly. My time is too precious to waste in pointless arguments with little jack.

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