Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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How does one go to the very source of thought?


Displaying posts 91 - 120 of 220 in total
Tue, 30 Jul 2019 #91
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5645 posts in this forum Offline

One Self/Idiot?. Do you know why I get on your case? Because you ruin every thread on this part of the forum. You do that by posting ridiculous opinions or conclusions that have nothing to do with the original intent or topic of the thread.

You ruined this thread with your unsupported, inaccurate belief that K said something he didn't. You are more interested in justifying your beliefs than you are finding out what is really being said.

Now you're off on some confused, neurotic belief that the words "you" and "yours" have some sort of significance. You just invent things to believe in because you are clueless as to what is actually being said.

Some would say that I should cut you some slack because you are obviously mentally retarded. But, as I have already pointed out, your posts are shallow, confused, disruptive and, frankly, stupid. Isn't there some other place you could go to post where you would blend in better?

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Tue, 30 Jul 2019 #92
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1271 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
One Self/Idiot?. Do you know why I get on your case? Because youruin every thread on this part of the forum. You do that by posting ridiculous opinions or conclusions that have nothing to do with the original intent or topic of the thread.

You ruined this thread with your unsupported, inaccurate belief that K said something he didn't. You are more interested in justifying your beliefs than you are finding out what is really being said.

Now you're off on some confused, neurotic belief that the words "you" and "yours" have some sort of significance. You just invent things to believe in because you are clueless as to what is actually being said.

Some would say that I should cut you some slack because youare obviously mentally retarded. But, as I have already pointed out, your posts are shallow, confused, disruptive and, frankly, stupid. Isn't there some other place you could go to post where you would blend in better?

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Tue, 30 Jul 2019 #93
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1271 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Do I know why I get on mycase? Because I ruin every thread on this part of the forum. I do that by posting ridiculous opinions or conclusions that have nothing to do with the original intent or topic of the thread.

I ruined this thread with my unsupported, inaccurate belief that K said something he didn't. I am more interested in justifying my beliefs than I
finding out what is really being said.

Now I am off on some confused, neurotic belief that the words "you" and "yours" have some sort of significance. I just invent things to believe in because I am clueless as to what is actually being said.

Some would say that I should cut me some slack because I am obviously mentally retarded. But, as I have already pointed out, my posts are shallow, confused, disruptive and, frankly, stupid. Isn't there some other place I could go to post where I would blend in better?

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Tue, 30 Jul 2019 #94
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1271 posts in this forum Offline

The above is the truth (the opposite of what the little devil wrote).

This post was last updated by One Self Tue, 30 Jul 2019.

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Tue, 30 Jul 2019 #95
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1271 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
"Do you believe in the Easter Bunny too?".

No but you believe that you are an American..

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Tue, 30 Jul 2019 #96
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5645 posts in this forum Offline

Holy crap, One Self/idiot?, you are stark raving mad! Really, get some professional help before you end up in a place crowded with people with a gun in your hand.

Oh, and by the way, you forgot to highlight the "you" and "yours" I had in quote marks. Don't they count too?

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Tue, 30 Jul 2019.

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Tue, 30 Jul 2019 #97
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1271 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Holy crap I am stark raving mad! Really, I get some professional help before I end up in a place crowed with people with a gun in my hand.

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Tue, 30 Jul 2019 #98
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1271 posts in this forum Offline

He is beginning to learn about himself. He escapes from himself through his conditioning. He is conditioned in the Army by the word "you". Now he is an old man with hate against" you".What a tragedy.

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Tue, 30 Jul 2019 #99
Thumb_em3 Ken D United States 39 posts in this forum Offline

What a fascinating thread. It should be submitted to the Library of Congress.

"Whence should there be joy to a peaceless man?" Bhagavad Gita

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Tue, 30 Jul 2019 #100
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1430 posts in this forum Offline

Way better than those Bohm and Shainberg discussions.

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #101
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 649 posts in this forum Offline

As far as One Self and me being the same person, it is false. Unless you are convinced that there is only one consciousness for all mankind. In that case, Jack Pine and idiot are one consciousness, as are One Self, Ken D, Dan McDermott, Sean Hen, Huguette, etc., etc. I am you and you are me and we are all together, as John Lennon wrote in his song.

But if we are separate consciousnesses, then I can assure that I write here at kinfonet with a single identity. A couple of decades ago, I created the identity Jokester. I did that to separate off my humorous posts from my serious posts. But for well over a decade, I've just had the single identity of idiot ?, here on kinfonet. I've never had any other identifiers except idiot and Jokester on kinfonet.

I cannot take the time to correct Jack Pine's many errors but he was so persistent with this one that I have done so. Not that I expect him to accept the truth.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Wed, 31 Jul 2019.

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #102
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 854 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
The impossible question. The valid question. The wrong question.

Call it what you will. Can thought end and love flower?

It's really the only question.

Yes, we often come back to this question. In the video which started this thread, Krishnamurti states that when we are absolutely clear that we don't know, the activity of thought comes to an end, at least temporarily. Perhaps this is a question of a lack of clarity. After so many years of living in the field of thought and the known, how can we suddenly not know? We understand, at least intellectually, that thought is always limited and an obstruction to being in contact with "what is". Perhaps that is the starting point.

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #103
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 854 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
I've never had any other identifiers except idiot and Jokester on kinfonet.

It's good that you've cleared that up.

This post was last updated by Sean Hen Wed, 31 Jul 2019.

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #104
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1430 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
After so many years of living in the field of thought and the known, how can we suddenly not know? We understand, at least intellectually, that thought is always limited and an obstruction to being in contact with "what is". Perhaps that is the starting point.

Thought can never "not know' can it?... in the same way that water can never be dry...thought is knowing and no matter how it twists and turns it will always be what it is, the past. Can it cease when it realizes that it is a 'screen' between one's perception and the world. That it distorts the world according to how we have been conditioned from childhood to now. It has created itself as an 'entity', an ongoing concern like a "corporation" (Bohm's comment in the latest John R. post) and there is no reason that it can't dissolve itself totally and be still. But it has made itself 'self-perpetuating' and any attempt it makes to be 'still' only creates another movement in a different direction. So as is suggested, is it fear of its own demise that keeps the wheels spinning? The 'image' of itself (me) as 'not-being' that is so terrifying that we put up with it?

This post was last updated by Dan McDermott Wed, 31 Jul 2019.

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #105
Thumb_em3 Ken D United States 39 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
As far as One Self and me being the same person, it is false. Unless you are convinced that there is only one consciousness for all mankind. In that case, Jack Pine and idiot are one consciousness, as are One Self, Ken D, Dan McDermott, Sean Hen, Huguette, etc., etc. I am you and you are me and we are all together, as John Lennon wrote in his song.

Yeah, sure. We see evidence of this everyday right here.

"Whence should there be joy to a peaceless man?" Bhagavad Gita

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #106
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 854 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
Thought can never "not know' can it?... in the same way that water can never be dry...thought is knowing and no matter how it twists and turns it will always be what it is, the past.

Hi Dan. Can thought never not know? Well, thought can be confused and not clear. Is there a not knowing when thought cannot make a decision because of confusion? But yes, thought does seem to be made up of the past. However, in the video, it seems that Krishnamurti is not talking about thought not knowing. He says (minute 6:47):

"When you say, I don't know .... actually, I dont know. What has happened to the quality of thinking? ........ When you actually say I don't know, and you mean it, not say "Well, I'll find out" ....... But when you are absolutely clear that you don't know, what happens to the movement of thought? ....... The activity of thought comes to an end for the moment."

So he seems to be speaking of a clarity that is not of thought. He talks of this quality of absolute clarity. There is a clear seeing that "I don't know". Isn't this what he is saying?

This post was last updated by Sean Hen Wed, 31 Jul 2019.

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #107
Thumb_em3 Ken D United States 39 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
I created the identity Jokester. I did that to separate off my humorous posts from my serious posts.

I combine both. In that way nobody can tell whether I'm serious or pulling your leg. That makes people think, which is, contrary to K, a good thing.

"Whence should there be joy to a peaceless man?" Bhagavad Gita

This post was last updated by Ken D Wed, 31 Jul 2019.

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #108
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1430 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
When you actually say I don't know, and you mean it, not say "Well, I'll find out" ....... But when you are absolutely clear that you don't know, what happens to the movement of thought? ....... The activity of thought comes to an end for the moment."

So he seems to be speaking of a clarity that is not of thought. He talks of this quality of absolute clarity. There is a clear seeing that "I don't know". Isn't this what he is saying?

That is the way I see it, that thought when it realizes it definitely does not have the answer, it doesn't search...It is that "absolute clarity" that is missing then, isn't it? because thought starts right up again, oblivious to the fact that it is in the 'wrong place' and creating conflict and misery...oblivious to the fact that it is the source of chaos.

This post was last updated by Dan McDermott Wed, 31 Jul 2019.

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #109
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1271 posts in this forum Offline

Thought perpetuates itself through condemnation and justification. One can see that in jack's comments. K says do the opposite . That is stop condemning or justifying so that thought loses its grip on the mind. That is so simple that a complicated mind cannot do.

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #110
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5645 posts in this forum Offline

One Self/idiot? wrote:
Thought perpetuates itself through condemnation and justification. One can see that in jack's comments.

But my objections about you have always been that you are too stupid to see that you are doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing. Your above quote is both a condemnation of me and a justification of your own conclusions.

And I don't buy it that you and idiot? are not the same person. I have stated my reasons previously on this thread.

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #111
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 854 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
It is that "absolute clarity" that is missing then, isn't it? because thought starts right up again, oblivious to the fact that it is in the 'wrong place' and creating conflict and misery...oblivious to the fact that it is the source of chaos.

Hello again Dan. Yes, it does seem to be this "absolute clarity" that is missing. At minute 7:22 on the video Krishnamurti says "But when you are absolutely clear that you don't know." When he says the word "absolutely" he not only accentuates it with his voice but also makes a downward karate chopping gesture as he pronounces it.

So absolute clarity does seem crucial in thought coming to an end for a given moment.

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #112
Thumb_em3 Ken D United States 39 posts in this forum Offline

"Whence should there be joy to a peaceless man?" Bhagavad Gita

This post was last updated by Ken D Wed, 31 Jul 2019.

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #113
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1430 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
So absolute clarity does seem crucial in thought coming to an end for a given moment.

For psychological thought to come to an end, which also means for psychological time to come to an end, doesn't there have to be an 'absolute clarity' as to what thought/time is? And how it creates the chaos we live in. How it divides us through the creation of an individual 'me', a 'self'? Does that 'clarity' come about through 'insight'? From outside of thought? Or does thought become aware of itself, of its own movement?...To communicate here, we have to think, to use words, but can we do that and not get lost in them...remember that they, whether Spanish or English, are only symbols?

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #114
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1271 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
But my objections about me has always been that I am too stupid to see that I am doing exactly what I am accusing me of doing.

And I don't buy it that I and idiot? are not the same person.

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #115
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1271 posts in this forum Offline

The other factor that perpetuates thought is the image that one has about oneself. Krishnamurti said once that there was a tribe that they burned anybody who had an image of himself or others . He said if they continued doing that in the world we would not have all these politicians in the world today.

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #116
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5645 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
But my objections about me has always been that I am too stupid to see that I am doing exactly what I am accusing me of doing.

And I don't buy it that I and idiot? are not the same person.

...like having a discussion with a slow seven year old.

Recommend

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Wed, 31 Jul 2019.

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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 #117
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5645 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Krishnamurti said once that there was a tribe that they burned anybody who had an image of himself or others . He said if they continued doing that in the world we would not have all these politicians in the world today.

Nonsense. No so-called quotes without references. Most of us have read and listened to K for many, many years and who here has heard anything like this?. This has obviously been made up by a not very sharp mind. Or someone imitating a not very sharp mind. Eh, idiot??. Like when one self wrote the idiotic posts about "telegraphs" and "carbon monoxide".

This is why references, citations, are absolutely necessary. This quote has no credibility especially considering the source.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Wed, 31 Jul 2019.

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Thu, 01 Aug 2019 #118
Thumb_em3 Ken D United States 39 posts in this forum Offline

I have no desire to act as a referee, but Krishnamurti did say this, and a search on Google will provide you with the source.

"Whence should there be joy to a peaceless man?" Bhagavad Gita

This post was last updated by Ken D Thu, 01 Aug 2019.

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Thu, 01 Aug 2019 #119
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5645 posts in this forum Offline

Ken, not everyone spends their life inside playing with computers. Why not just post the citation? I've been wrong before so I'm not afraid of you producing the citation. Why get involved at all if you're not going to supply the citation?

I live in the Rocky Mountains in the summer surrounded by 10K high mountains and one 14K mountain. That's where I prefer to spend most of my time. At least as long as my legs and lungs hold out.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Fri, 02 Aug 2019.

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Thu, 01 Aug 2019 #120
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1271 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Nonsense.

As I said anything the little Jack says the opposite of it is true.

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