Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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What is the ground on which inner silence may come about?


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Thu, 28 Mar 2019 #61
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5492 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Chapter 71 - Freedom is sane living in daily life

You know giving the Chapter number without the title of the book is completely worthless. Did you ever actually go to a school? I mean a regular school.

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Thu, 28 Mar 2019 #62
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1053 posts in this forum Offline

To a worthless person every thing is worthless.

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Thu, 28 Mar 2019 #63
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1330 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:

One Self wrote:

Chapter 71 - Freedom is sane living in daily life

You know giving the Chapter number without the title of the book is completely worthless. Did you ever actually go to a school? I mean a regular school.

Dear Jack, i really wonder why after all this time you still get upset by the everlasting provocations of this person behind " one self "?
To me it is obvious he found your button to stir you and he does it on purpose.

One Self wrote:
To a worthless person every thing is worthless.

do not fall into his shit, he enjoys smearing others ;-)

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Thu, 28 Mar 2019 #64
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1053 posts in this forum Offline

Wim you and jack are both psychopaths and trolls. Dont you have any shame?
Please get the hell out of this Krishnamurti site and let people study Krishnamurti. Blow is where the above quote came from.

https://www.jkrishnamurti.org/content/chapter-7...

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Thu, 28 Mar 2019 #65
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1330 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Wim you and jack are both psychopaths and trolls.

I am not really excited by the words of.? ..., yes who are you really .. ?? ..

There is one thing clear, coarse use of words
is a talent that you have full mastery of ...

I stick to a clear explanation about the use of words:

Group Discussion 31st December, 1947 | Madras, India

... It is necessary to experiment with this in your daily life and so live that every thought and feeling comes to an end. This means you should be extremely careful as to what you say consciously or unconsciously, what you feel and what you do. Every word has a verbal and a nervous reaction which sets a wave going. Do not allow other's words to react upon you. Be careful not to use words which produce responses in others. Be careful about what books and newspapers you read. Similarly, what you feel affects you nervously and you will find what tremendous effect cinema-going has upon you. Cinema shows awaken responses which continue in that state and are not ended. Therefore, you are inclined to go again and again to movies. You have to understand this and be free from all these excitements. Love is not memory and it comes into being only before you have a feeling. The ending of feeling is not a battle to overcome a struggle but it is really seeing directly the truth of ending the feeling. A feeling is a thought when named. When words have nervous responses both on yourself and on the individual in relationship with you, they become important, so, you are silent. Similarly, when you end a feeling, there is immediate communion and there is complete understanding

.

One Self wrote:
Dont you have any shame?

There is for me nothing to be ashamed for !

One Self wrote:
Please get the hell out of this Krishnamurti site and let people study Krishnamurti.

Is that what you are doing ' study Krishnamurt '
to collect knowledge about a person !

I study the Teaching and this information about communication Isn't worthless

Public Talk 14th December, 1947 | Madras, India

It is always difficult to communicate because the verbal expression and understanding are on different levels, are they not? We listen to words but the understanding comes only when we hear within ourselves what is being said. So, I think there is a difference between listening and hearing. Those of us who are accustomed to listening, really hardly ever understand because our understanding then is merely verbal, on the verbal level. But hearing I think is different. Hearing is more subjective, not as an opposite but in itself. Hearing is more what is taking place, you are hearing what is taking place in yourself rather than listening to some one outside. So, as I have been suggesting in all these talks and discussions, it would be a waste of time if you merely listen to words and do not hear in yourself their significance, it would be gathering from outside rather than hearing your own process of thinking and feeling.

in contrast to your contribution

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Thu, 28 Mar 2019.

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Fri, 29 Mar 2019 #66
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5492 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Wim you and jack are both psychopaths and trolls.

We were here before you, at least in your present incarnation as "one self". We'll be here after you either leave or are, eventually, thrown off as you have probably been in the past under a different name.

One Self wrote:
Dont you have any shame?

Not a bit. Nothing to be ashamed about. But if I were you I certainly would be. Except that I probably wouldn't have the brains to realize that I should be which seems to be the case with you.

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Fri, 29 Mar 2019 #67
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1053 posts in this forum Offline

"The moment you start arguing with an ignorant fool, you have already lost." Unknown

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Fri, 29 Mar 2019 #68
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1330 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
"The moment you start arguing with an ignorant fool, you have already lost." Unknown

One Self wrote:
Please get the hell out of this Krishnamurti site and let people study Krishnamurti.

studying Krishnamurti is not about winning or losing, no wonder you are lost!

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Fri, 29 Mar 2019 #69
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1053 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
if one self would experience that living is the excitement itself, there will no need looking for it in conflict.

K: Do you really learn this or do you merely use the word learning to cover up your demand for excitement?

K: What do you learn from troubles? Either you learn never to get involved in them or you get excitement, sensation, and you move then from one excitement to another, ever demanding greater sensations. And what do you learn from that?

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Fri, 29 Mar 2019 #70
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1053 posts in this forum Offline

No wonder you and jack seek excitement and irritation in this site. As k said you both will end up in the police station.

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Sat, 30 Mar 2019 #71
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1330 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:

Wim Opdam wrote:

if one self would experience that living is the excitement itself, there will no need looking for it in conflict.

K: Do you really learn this or do you merely use the word learning to cover up your demand for excitement?

K: What do you learn from troubles? Either you learn never to get involved in them or you get excitement, sensation, and you move then from one excitement to another, ever demanding greater sensations. And what do learn about that ?

No wonder you and jack seek excitement and irritation in this site. As k said you both will end up in the police station.

what you claim K. has said make something clear about your own behavior and the way in which you interpret other people's behavior.

your words and behavior speak for themselves,
there is really nothing to learn from that!

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Sat, 30 Mar 2019 #72
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1053 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
what you claim K. has said ...

Questioner: Are you saying that we must not conform to what other people are doing? It is fun to do what others do; it gives me a sense of companionship. It makes it easier to talk, and also it is fun to get into some trouble. Shouldn't we see what it is like to get into a bit of trouble? Most people do. Won't we learn something from it?

Krishnamurti: Education is to make you sensitive not only to your own particular desires, fancies and troubles but also to those of others. Can you be sensitive-that is, highly intelligent-if you are conforming, if you are copying, however pleasant it may be for the time being, what everybody else does? Will intelligence allow you to get into trouble, and what is there to learn from trouble? You may steal something in a shop or from your friend. If you do you will end up in a police station. Is this the action of sensitivity, intelligence? What do you learn from troubles? Either you learn never to get involved in them or you get excitement, sensation, and you move then from one excitement to another, ever demanding greater sensations. And what do you learn from that?

Do you learn the implications of companionship, that you need to depend on others for your sense of self-esteem, to cover up your insufficiency, your feeling of being wanted in one place but not in another? Do you really learn this or do you merely use the word learning to cover up your demand for excitement? One must have fun, one must be able to laugh and to talk to another, but it must come from inside you. That is youth. To have to go outside yourself to seek fun leads to all kinds of trouble, and that is part of this insanity of the world in which we live. It is like going to a temple, or to a church to find God. You may not go there, but you want your little excitement out there somewhere. They are both the same. If you are really learning, it is here and not out there.

Chapter 71 - Freedom is sane living in daily life

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Sat, 30 Mar 2019 #73
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1053 posts in this forum Offline

It is impossible to respond correctly to a person who ignores what you write or what you quote!!!!

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Sat, 30 Mar 2019 #74
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1330 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
As k said you both will end up in the police station.

If you write this how the hell i would take seriously this:

One Self wrote:
K: Do you really learn this or do you merely use the word learning to cover up your demand for excitement?

K: What do you learn from troubles? Either you learn never to get involved in them or you get excitement, sensation, and you move then from one excitement to another, ever demanding greater sensations. And what do you learn from that?

Which is a) out of its context and b) without proper citations.

So if you want respond correctly you start with correct behaviour,
wrong starts leads to wrong ends so blame your own self instead of another self for your impossibility.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Sat, 30 Mar 2019.

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Sat, 30 Mar 2019 #75
Thumb_kr Ken D United States 34 posts in this forum Offline

What a fascinating thread....

One Self wrote:
As k said you both will end up in the police station.

"It has occurred to me, brother, that wisdom may not be the end of everything. Goodness and kindliness are, perhaps, beyond wisdom." James Stephens

This post was last updated by Ken D Sat, 30 Mar 2019.

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Sun, 31 Mar 2019 #76
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1053 posts in this forum Offline

Very funny Ken!:-)

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Sun, 31 Mar 2019 #77
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1330 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
What a fascinating thread....

One Self wrote:

As k said you both will end up in the police station.

Hi Ken,

A very good and funny representation of a completely imaginable and suggested situation.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Sun, 31 Mar 2019 #78
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5492 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Very funny Ken!:-)

I'm pretty sure Ken is laughing at you and your completely ludicrous quoted statement and you're not smart enough to know it.

Do you really think K said Wim and I would be put in jail? Or that anyone would be put in jail?

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Mon, 01 Apr 2019 #79
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1330 posts in this forum Offline

like every day I read the article behind the QOTD and found this sentence particularly appropriate in the light of the latest replies ..

Public Talk, February 29th, 1948 | Mumbai, India

K.....Others may point out the causes of your confusion - but surely, they don't become leaders. For example, I am pointing out the cause of confusion, but I am not becoming your leader or your guru.
It is for you to perceive and act upon it, or to leave it

P.S.: Bolding is mine

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Mon, 01 Apr 2019.

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Mon, 01 Apr 2019 #80
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1330 posts in this forum Offline

From chapter 9 "Dilligence" from the same book of chapter 71 earlier referred to nl. "The whole movement of life is learning "

The word diligence implies care, watchfulness, observation and a deep sense of freedom. Devotion to an object, a person, or a principle denies this freedom. Diligence is attention which brings about naturally infinite care, concern and the freshness of affection. All this demands great sensitivity. One is sensitive to one’s own desires or psychological wounds, or one is sensitive to a particular person, watching his desires and responding quickly to his needs; but that kind of sensitivity is limited and can hardly be called sensitive. The quality of sensitivity of which we are talking comes about naturally when there is total responsibility which is love. Diligence has this quality.

Negligence is indifference, sloth – indifference towards the physical organism, towards the psychological state, and indifference to others. In indifference there is callousness. In this state the mind becomes sluggish, the activity of thought slows down, quickness of perception is denied, and sensitivity is a thing that is incomprehensible. Most of us are sometimes diligent, but most often negligent. They are not really opposites; if they were, diligence would still be negligence

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Mon, 01 Apr 2019.

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Mon, 01 Apr 2019 #81
Thumb_kr Ken D United States 34 posts in this forum Offline

"It has occurred to me, brother, that wisdom may not be the end of everything. Goodness and kindliness are, perhaps, beyond wisdom." James Stephens

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Mon, 01 Apr 2019 #82
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1330 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
"Sirs, the tests came back. You're all bonkers."

Gee, I hope it is not contagious, so that you stay free of it,
or that the equipment was broken and the results are not correct ;-()

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Mon, 01 Apr 2019 #83
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1053 posts in this forum Offline

Mr False:I'm pretty sure Ken is laughing at you .

That is very funny.

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Tue, 02 Apr 2019 #84
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1330 posts in this forum Offline

this seems to me to be an appropriate piece of teaching!
The bolding is mine.

Ojai, California | 5th Public Talk 23rd June, 1940

Does violence cease through violence, hate through hate? If you hate me and I hate you in return, if you act violently towards me and I act likewise towards you, what is the result - more violence, more hatred, more bitterness, is it not? Is there any other consequence than this? Hate begets hate, ill will begets ill will. Very often in our relationship, individual or social, this spirit of retaliation breeds only more violence and more antagonism.

The spirit of vengeance is rampant in the world. Can you have any other attitude towards violence? We feel powerful in being violent. To use a commercial phrase, there are larger and quicker dividends in hate. The individual has created the existing social structure because of hatred within him, because of his desire to retaliate and to act violently. The world about us is in this feverish condition of hate and violence; because of its cunning and purposive strength, unless we, ourselves, are free of hate, we are easily carried away by the brutal current. If you are free of it, then the question of what attitude one should have towards the many expressions of hate does not arise. If you were deeply aware of hate itself and not merely of its cunning expressions, you would see that hate only begets hate. If you have hatred within you, you will respond to the hate of another, and since the world is you, you are bound to react to its fears, ignorance, and greed. Surely, you are bound to hate, to act vengefully, if your thought is confined to the self. Greed and possessive love must breed ill will and if thought does not free itself from them, there must be the constant action of hate and violence. As I pointed out, our beliefs and hopes are the result of craving, and when doubt is cast on them, resentment and anger arise. In understanding the cause of hate, there comes into being forgiveness, kindliness. Love and understanding come through being constantly aware

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Tue, 02 Apr 2019.

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Tue, 02 Apr 2019 #85
Thumb_father-jack jamie f United Kingdom 10 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
What a fascinating thread....

I wonder why it is so difficult to see things as they are...to look behind the mask and see ourselves as we are. We are all fairly intelligent, so why would the truth be so elusive? There must be a reason for this. As it is, we are principally interested in truth so that we can use it as a chess piece in order to outmanoeuvre our opponent and then truth becomes propaganda and the arguments begin.

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Tue, 02 Apr 2019 #86
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 513 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
this seems to me to be an appropriate piece of teaching!

Ojai, California | 5th Public Talk 23rd June, 1940
Does violence cease through violence, hate through hate? ... In understanding the cause of hate, there comes into being forgiveness, kindliness. Love and understanding come through being constantly aware.

Thank you, Wim Opdam, for posting this K quote. Clearly there is a level of animosity frequently in this forum. I'm sure that people don't feel that what they post rises to the strong word "hate." Nevertheless, a certain reactivity is triggered here, isn't it? A certain wanting to set the record straight? Which is simply the self involved in some kind of self-justified reactivity, isn't it?

I hope we can read and take this quote to heart. It really is up to us what kind of forum we want to create.

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Tue, 02 Apr 2019 #87
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5492 posts in this forum Offline

But you're OK, Ken. Your somewhat childish and cartoonish manipulation of K's image is normal and respectful and shows a deep interest in what K had to point out. Your participation here on the forum through satirical cartoons has nothing to do with ridiculing and trying to humiliate others instead of adding seriously to the discussion at hand.

It's a lot easier to criticize others than it is to see yourself for what you are. This applies to all of us, of course.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Tue, 02 Apr 2019.

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Tue, 02 Apr 2019 #88
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1330 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
I'm sure that people don't feel that what they post rises to the strong word "hate." Nevertheless, a certain reactivity is triggered here, isn't it? A certain wanting to set the record straight? Which is simply the self involved in some kind of self-justified reactivity, isn't it?

yes the word " hate" can easily changed with annoyed or irritated while the tenor of the quote still stands, however small It's violence in disguise.
Another example of the word is not the thing, isn't it ?

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Tue, 02 Apr 2019 #89
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1053 posts in this forum Offline

There is no violence in this chatroom. We have falsehood and truth. Seeing false as false is the highest intelligence.

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Wed, 03 Apr 2019 #90
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1330 posts in this forum Offline

we can recognize a game with words and parrotting regularly on this forum. for example, violence cannot be found on this forum, but its expression or incitement are. The QOTD, shown below, clearly shows that this energy is taking place in us and nowhere else.

It must begin with us, that is with you and me, not merely by saying 'I must begin', but in action, by becoming aware of what we are doing, of all the process and the repetition of ideas, and the absurdities in which we sometimes indulge, our class and communal divisions, national and racial divisions.

Krishnamurti Quote of the Day | Apr 03, 2019

Bolding is mine.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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