Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
General Discussion | moderated by Dev Singh

QOTD Feb,4 2019. True respect would show to all.!


Displaying all 8 posts
Page 1 of 1
Mon, 04 Feb 2019 #1
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1372 posts in this forum Offline

Ommen Camp, Holland | 2nd Public Talk 27th July, 1936

Question: The idea of leadership is, to many, a great inspiration. Also it leads to the cultivation of respect and a spirit of self-sacrifice. In you we recognize a great spiritual leader, and feel profound reverence towards you. Should we not therefore encourage, in others as well as in ourselves, these great qualities of respect and self-sacrifice?

Krishnamurti: The show of respect is personally distasteful to me. (Laughter) Please do not laugh. If there were true respect you would not only show it to me but to all.
 Your show of respect to me only indicates a mentality of barter. 
You think I am going to give you something, or help you in some way, and so you show respect. What you are really doing is showing respect to an idea that you should display consideration to a person who may help you, but out of this false respect there is born contempt for others. There is no consideration of the ideas in themselves, but unfortunately only of the person who gives forth these ideas. In this lies grave danger, leading to reciprocal exploitation. The mere respect of authority indicates fear which breeds many illusions. From this false respect, there arises the artificial distinction between leaders and followers, with its many obvious and subtle forms of exploitation. Where there is no intelligence there is respect for the few and disdain for the rest.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

Sign in to recommend  This post has been recommended by 1 reader
Back to Top
Mon, 04 Feb 2019 #2
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1430 posts in this forum Offline

Hi Wim,

Wouldn't "respect for all" have to be based on actually 'seeing' the 'oneness' of all and not be 'taken in' by the superficiality of our differences. Do we see that? Do we see that 'behind' all those violent, cruel, unfair, uncaring, greedy 'selfs' that we are actually all one? And so all naturally 'deserve' the same respect no matter how they manifest themselves?

This post was last updated by Dan McDermott Mon, 04 Feb 2019.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Tue, 05 Feb 2019 #3
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1372 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
Wouldn't "respect for all" have to be based on actually 'seeing' the 'oneness' of all and not be 'taken in' by the superficiality of our differences.

Hi Dan,

Isn't a fact that have to be is an indication that that Isn't a fact but an ideal ?

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Tue, 05 Feb 2019 #4
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1430 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
Isn't a fact that have to be is an indication that that Isn't a fact but an ideal ?

Pondering your question... the "ideal" is the antithesis of love isn't it? I'm this way: petty, frightened, confused, envious, greedy and 'I' want to be different than that, better than that. K reacts sharply to the idea that he is 'respected' while the other is not...because my 'respect' discriminates between him and the other. I feel that K can give me something that the other cannot...so in this sense the 'other' is worthless and K is not...so my 'respect' for him is based on greed, on what I can 'get', isn't it?... What I was getting at in my point is that 'respect for all' cannot exist in the presence of 'hate'. Love, and that's what is being spoken of here, cannot co-exist with hate. Love or Truth or Compassion or Intelligence or what ever word is used is not an 'ideal', something to be 'attained', something to be 'sought'. It is there or its not. The Gospel story (whether fact or not) illustrates it beautifully I think, in Christ's asking forgiveness for the people who are nailing him to a cross: "they know not what they do". No 'hate' at all there! The sun doesn't decide who to shine its light on, who is 'deserving' of its light... and Love must be the same. We decide who to respect and who to hate based on our conditioning, and ideals to be 'better' are false goals that keep us from seeing who and what we actually are. That takes 'love' doesn't it? And it's only in the light of a non-judgmental 'seeing', that what we are in this moment, can be gone beyond, can be 'negated'.

This post was last updated by Dan McDermott Tue, 05 Feb 2019.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Wed, 06 Feb 2019 #5
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1372 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:

Dan McDermott wrote:

Wouldn't "respect for all" have to be based on actually 'seeing' the 'oneness' of all and not be 'taken in' by the superficiality of our differences.

Hi Dan,

Isn't a fact that have to be is an indication that that Isn't a fact but an ideal ?

For me the determination of the state of respect or better formulated the absence of respect was/is based on the different replies in the topic " can we ask the right question " in combination with the QOTD lead to this topic.

can and may we speak of "oneness", if this is not present?

That's why I hesitate to write about reply #4.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Wed, 06 Feb 2019 #6
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 854 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
Krishnamurti: The show of respect is personally distasteful to me. (Laughter) Please do not laugh. If there were true respect you would not only show it to me but to all.
 Your show of respect to me only indicates a mentality of barter. 

Thanks for posting this quote Wim. Krishnamurti's reply to the question flies like an arrow right to the heart of the issue. He points out things we can all see in ourselves, I'm sure. The truth of what he says certainly resounds and I can only speculate that such sharp observation is the product of great clarity. I will try to be more aware of automatically showing a disproportionate amount of respect to anyone who I feel I have something to gain from.

On a different note, how is one to react when someone shows a lack of respect towards us? Now that is a challenge.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Wed, 06 Feb 2019 #7
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1372 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
On a different note, how is one to react when someone shows a lack of respect towards us? Now that is a challenge.

Yes it is easy to spot by others,
but towards oneself is another peace of cake.

It certainly is not reacting on the same way.

Only recently some idea came up to me:
" if the bar is too high, you may also be able to walk under or around it. "

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Wed, 06 Feb 2019.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Sat, 09 Feb 2019 #8
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1372 posts in this forum Offline

To address the after-talking at the campfire !

Please, sit with your faces to the fire, as I shall not talk very long. There will be no music after I have talked and the camp fire will be over soon as I have talked.

You know, we all want to take what we have understood to help another, to bring a change into the world. I feel we cannot change the world with that attitude. If you have understood what I have been talking about during the last three weeks, by your action born of understanding you will bring about a change. Not when you desire to change the world, will you bring a change in the world. But if we act out of understanding, that action will bring about its own change. There is a vast difference between the desire to change, and action born of understanding which brings about change.

Some of you have listened with great earnestness and others have merely heard, and those of you who have really understood and therefore will act, will bring about a change; they will carry the flame. However little it is, it will be the vital flame that will give sustenance, that will be understanding. And you can only carry that flame if you have really searched out and you have really pondered over what has been said during these three weeks. From that, natural action comes; and that action won’t be the action of patchwork, changing little things here and little things over there. It will be a fundamental change.

I hope you all will have a happy journey and that we shall meet again in two years.

Thirteenth Talk at Ommen Sunday, August 13, 1933

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Sat, 09 Feb 2019.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Displaying all 8 posts
Page 1 of 1
To quote a portion of this post in your reply, first select the text and then click this "Quote" link.

(N.B. Be sure to insert an empty line between the quoted text and your reply.)