Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
General Discussion | moderated by Dev Singh

Can we ask the right question?


Displaying posts 181 - 210 of 358 in total
Mon, 28 Jan 2019 #181
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 210 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia: Unless we act from the fact of the havoc we human beings create, how can there ever be 'relationship'?

Do you have any image of me? This is perhaps the first step in all this. Any image will create havoc at the immediate personal level. So can we start with this question first, before moving out into the wider circles of relationship?

This post was last updated by Paul Dimmock Mon, 28 Jan 2019.

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Mon, 28 Jan 2019 #182
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1417 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimmock wrote:
Do you have any image of me?

I think that is the right question to ask from someone online who likes to communicate with you. I think first one has to ask oneself do I have any image of me? Most of us do have an image of ourselves as American or Russian or British man and so on. That is the tragedy of it.

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Mon, 28 Jan 2019 #183
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1928 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
our relationship' with what? Each other? For the most part human relationship is a whole bunch of images banging around to see who can come out top of the heap. That is not relationship.

Relationship with the planet perhaps? We are destroying it.

Relationship with all the creatures on the earth? We kill and consume them. Or just kill them anyway - for entertainment.

Relationship with the the marvellous living and breathing trees? We clear-fell them.

Relationship with our waterways and oceans? We pollute it all with our rubbish.

Relationship with the air we breathe? We pollute that also - to fulfil our desires.

If you want to talk about relationship lets start there. Responsibility Paul.

Unless we act from the fact of the havoc we human beings create, how can there ever be 'relationship'?

We ARE all that. That IS relationship. Relationship with the whole.

Staying stuck in the personal:

Paul Dimmock wrote:

Do you have any image of me?

is to continue in the pattern of 'self'. To perpetuate it further. It may be comfortable, and make one feel good to pontificate endlessly upon one'self', and what everyone else thinks about one'self', and to express our opinions about every other 'self', but as K said 'the house is burning' - while we continue to 'self'-righteously and publicly contemplate our navels.

This post was last updated by Patricia Hemingway Tue, 29 Jan 2019.

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Tue, 29 Jan 2019 #184
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 210 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia: ...but as K said 'the house is burning' - while we continue to self-righteously and publicly contemplate our navels.

But the house is you. It starts with you. And you are all the images you have of the world and of yourself. You are burning with images. So unless we start very simply and very near to ourselves, all our next steps are going to create the havoc of which you talk.

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Tue, 29 Jan 2019 #185
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1417 posts in this forum Offline

If there was no Krishnamurti we ten people who regularly post comments in here would have nothing to talk about together. Is that not interesting how intellectually poor we ten people are?

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Tue, 29 Jan 2019 #186
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1417 posts in this forum Offline

If there was no Krishnamurti we ten people who regularly post comments in here would have nothing to talk about together. Is that not interesting how intellectually poor we ten people are?

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Tue, 29 Jan 2019 #187
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1928 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimmock wrote:
But the house is you. It starts with you. And you are all the images you have of the world and of yourself. You are burning with images

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
We ARE all that.

Did you not read what was written above Paul?

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Tue, 29 Jan 2019 #188
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1928 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
If there was no Krishnamurti we ten people who regularly post comments in here would have nothing to talk about together. Is that not interesting how intellectually poor we ten people are?

That is a personal statement One Self - therefore you speak for yourself.

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Wed, 30 Jan 2019 #189
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5742 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
That is a personal statement One Self - therefore you speak for yourself.

Of course he only speaks for himself. All of his "quotes" from his god K, most of which he invents I suspect, are just opinions or responses that have nothing to do with the thread of the conversation. The thing is, Patricia, when you respond to him do you really expect to get a rational reply back? So why respond?

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Wed, 30 Jan 2019 #190
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1928 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
So why respond?

Jack. Because I can. Because sometimes things are just so stupid they require a reasonable response. Where have you been all my (Kinfonet) life Jack? :)

This post was last updated by Patricia Hemingway Wed, 30 Jan 2019.

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Wed, 30 Jan 2019 #191
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5742 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
Because sometimes things are just so stupid they require a reasonable response.

Well, yes I see that and have felt the same way not too long ago. But it's a lot like trying to put out a fire by throwing gasoline (petrol) on it. In any case we are stuck with it. You know this site is no longer being moderated don't you? Someone fairly reliable told me that in a personal message. His source was none other than Dev.

Also, or maybe this is connected, there is so much blather and over thinking/discussing everything on here I think it has resulted in the lost a lot of readership. It you notice not many people are being counted as opening the various threads on this forum and probably the other forums.

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Wed, 30 Jan 2019 #192
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1417 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
One Self wrote:

If there was no Krishnamurti we ten people who regularly post comments in here would have nothing to talk about together. Is that not interesting how intellectually poor we ten people are?

Patr...;That is a personal statement One Self - therefore you speak for yourself.

Just look at jacks comments. He has over 5000 posts. 95? of his comments are reactions to others. He never has anything to say about the topic of a discussion. He is like a dog who barks at anybody who passes by except his masters. All empty words. Very difficult to discuss anything with these people. And Paul wants everybody to repeat his question without any answer! No problem . We just don't have anything in common. That is all.

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Wed, 30 Jan 2019 #193
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1417 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
You know this site is no longer being moderated don't you?

No wonder why you are not banned for using foul languages.

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Wed, 30 Jan 2019 #194
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1398 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
CARE FOR THE ANIMALS ON THIS COLDEST OF NIGHTS

Yes, mister Trump asked for the help of Global Warming.

Does he now accept the existence of it ??
Or is he transformed in an ostrich,
who put out of fear his head in the sand ??

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Wed, 30 Jan 2019.

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Wed, 30 Jan 2019 #195
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 210 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia: We ARE all that. Did you not read what was written above?

I want to start very close, that's all. I want to start with you and me. Do we have images of one another? Apparently you have the image of me that I want everybody to repeat my question without any answer. That is not what I want. I want to enquire with someone, anyone, hopefully with you. But when we are all starting from answers and solutions, all starting so far away in abstractions, it makes enquiry and dialogue quite impossible. We are all that. Agreed. So how are we two, you and I who are all that, how are we to begin together? All of that mess is you and me; the core of the whole mess is nowhere else. It may manifest in social decay and environmental disaster; but it has its roots in you and me, in this relationship. I don't know why we are even arguing about this. Surely it is quite obvious.

This post was last updated by Paul Dimmock Wed, 30 Jan 2019.

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Wed, 30 Jan 2019 #196
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1398 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Someone fairly reliable told me that in a personal message. His source was none other than Dev.

Hi JACK,

Is Dev no longer interested
or no longer able to carry out this responsibility? ?

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Wed, 30 Jan 2019 #197
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1417 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
Does he now accept the existence of it ??

Can Mr False all of a sudden become truthful? No.

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Thu, 31 Jan 2019 #198
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5742 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
Is Dev no longer interested
or no longer able to carry out this responsibility? ?

I don't know Wim. Maybe the person who told me about this will speak up and answer the question.

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Thu, 31 Jan 2019 #199
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5742 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
Jack. Because I can. Because sometimes things are just so stupid they require a reasonable response. Where have you been all my (Kinfonet) life Jack? :)

Well Patricia you can do what you want, of course. But you notice that almost no one else communicates with the prick. His name is all over the forum all the way down the line of threads. And yet people respond to him less than anyone else on this site. Mostly because what he writes is crap. Which is one of the reasons I once called him an asshole. The two go together.

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Thu, 31 Jan 2019 #200
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1417 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
I once called him an asshole. The two go together.

Eat sh.. Jack. All you think is about the lower body fat head.

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Thu, 31 Jan 2019 #201
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1928 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimmock wrote:
I want to start very close, that's all. I want to start with you and me. Do we have images of one another? Apparently you have the image of me that I want everybody to repeat my question without any answer. That is not what I want. I want to enquire with someone, anyone, hopefully with you. But when we are all starting from answers and solutions, all starting so far away in abstractions, it makes enquiry and dialogue quite impossible. We are all that. Agreed. So how are we two, you and I who are all that, how are we to begin together? All of that mess is you and me; the core of the whole mess is nowhere else. It may manifest in social decay and environmental disaster; but it has its roots in you and me, in this relationship. I don't know why we are even arguing about this. Surely it is quite obvious.

There is only one thing to add before this little black duck disappears again.

I have visited this discussion forum for about twenty years, back to when it was the old Kinfonet.

K said that in serious inquiry one inevitably moves from the personal to the general to the universal.

The only reason I return is to discover anyone at all who has moved beyond the personal. And guess what?

The same old same old disappearing up one's own rhetoric. Making 'thought' the demon without any understanding of what its place is. Doctrinizing the teaching of K - never bothering to find out first-hand, and in action not words - the living truth of what he pointed out.

It is difficult to believe that the deeply beautiful and truthfully insightful teaching of K can have morphed into such a selfish, self-fulfilling dogma, such as is spouted on Kinfonet. It is a great shame. Just words words and more words - signifying nothing at all. No glimmer of understanding. No responsibility. No passion for truth.

No movement from the personal even to the general - let alone the universal.

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Thu, 31 Jan 2019 #202
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1398 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
this little black duck disappears again.

this boy would regret that, but in his heart you will not disappear. ;)

unfortunately, the only available on kifonet are 'words'.

the annoying thing with words is that it can not be fully expressed what is deeply present. and let's be honest that living is more meaningful than words and that's what is done outside kinfonet.

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
It is difficult to believe that the deeply beautiful and truthfully insightful teaching of K can have morphed into such a selfish, self-fulfilling dogma, such as is spouted on Kinfonet. It is a great shame. Just words words and more words - signifying nothing at all. No glimmer of understanding. No responsibility. No passion for truth.

No movement from the personal even to the general - let alone the universal.

My hope is that those words are not an expression of despair or disappointment and that exceptions are allowed.

Still love you.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Thu, 31 Jan 2019.

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Thu, 31 Jan 2019 #203
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1928 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
My hope is that those words are not an expression of despair or disappointment and that exceptions are allowed.

They are not an expression of despair Wim. And it is not to judge anyone personally - we are all the same brain after all.

And yes - on an internet forum there are only words. But there is a comfortable rut that the brain gets stuck in - all the while believing that this is where the change is. Change can only come about in action - not in the same repeated over-and-over words and puzzlings.

Still love you.

Love you too Wim, along with all the inquirers and friends discovered on Kinfonet over the many years.

But perhaps the forum has seen its better days. Now that the self (in society) rules supreme, words just don't cut it anymore.

If the teaching of K is not functioning in every moment, in every action, of every day - if one does not pick it up and embrace it and run with it, and allow it to manifest as it will (as truth) in everyday life, then it has no meaning.

But the self is too impressed with its own invention (of self) to allow any truth to manifest. The self prefers to personally attack other selfs, and feel better for doing so. The self is standing in its own way. Simple as that. Because as K said: Where you are, the other is not.

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Thu, 31 Jan 2019 #204
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 210 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia: K said that in serious inquiry one inevitably moves from the personal to the general to the universal.

Then let's move. But our starting point must be the personal because if this is not right between us then the rest will be just words and abstractions. So do you have an image of me? Be honest about it.

Please, do consider this carefully. It may be that to get the personal side of things right, with total order and integrity in just one relationship, this is the only step necessary into the universal with all its infinite sacredness. In other words, we bypass altogether the general but move only from the personal immediately into the universal. This may be the whole function of dialogue and enquiry, to effect such a thing; and yet over and over again no-one wants even to start to enquire, preferring always to stick at their own watering-hole.

This post was last updated by Paul Dimmock Thu, 31 Jan 2019.

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Thu, 31 Jan 2019 #205
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1417 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
The self prefers to personally attack other selfs,

Hopefully you are not excluding your self which is another trick of thought.
We have a lot of fat heads in this country who talk endlessly but say practically nothing. One of them is the president . He represents all of the selfish fat heads in this country.

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Thu, 31 Jan 2019 #206
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1417 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
Well, at least you and Jack can agree on that. I suppose that's progress.

There is no need for agreement or justification. Facts remain as facts and falsehood remains as false. Nothing can change that.

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Fri, 01 Feb 2019 #207
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5742 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
There is no need for agreement or justification. Facts remain as facts and falsehood remains as false. Nothing can change that.

Are you familiar with the term, "diarrhea of the mouth"?. You have a really bad case of it. You just can't shut up spouting your crap. So much for any illusion of a quiet mind. And BS? You wouldn't know a fact if it slapped you in the face.

Why do you try so hard to twist what others say just to use it make one of your irrational, irrelevant, mean spirited comments? Try shutting up for awhile and just observe your thought processes, what there is of it, instead of constantly running off at the mouth. OK BS? Just give it a shot.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Fri, 01 Feb 2019.

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Fri, 01 Feb 2019 #208
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1417 posts in this forum Offline

Jack has a twisted mind!

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Fri, 01 Feb 2019 #209
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5742 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Jack has a twisted mind!

Wow! What a scathing, witty come back. I have another expression for you. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt". It sounds like something Ben Franklin said but I'm not sure.

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Fri, 01 Feb 2019 #210
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1417 posts in this forum Offline

I am glad that I was able to expose this jack guy. Actually I don't do anything ,he exposes himself to others. He is probably very skinny and Ill fed guy who his only weapon is words in this site. I apologize for him from everyone for his foul languages. The poor fellow must have lost it.:-)

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