Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Can we ask the right question?


Displaying posts 331 - 358 of 358 in total
Mon, 18 Feb 2019 #331
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimmock wrote:
I am asking him: what matters most to you? But I am putting the same question to you and to anyone else who is interested. In putting this question, exploring it, I shall also find out for myself what matters most to me in my relationship with him and you and anyone else who happens to come along.

Really? How does this work for you? Do you need to understand others to understand yourself? If so then would it be fair to conclude that you are dependent on outside sources for your own understanding?

What about understanding yourself first and then understanding others by realizing that all of us are pretty much conditioned in the same ways?

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Mon, 18 Feb 2019 #332
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 210 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine: Really? How does this work for you? Do you need to understand others to understand yourself?

I did not talk about understanding others or myself. I am talking about finding out what matters most to us in our relationship with one another. Maybe we want to be right; maybe we want to be dominant; maybe we want to express our own carefully formulated opinions. Then dialogue is impossible. For me, dialogue is the most important thing in life, not the destination but the whole journey of it. But if you or X or Y have other passions, we are never going to meet. So what is your passion? Let's put it this way instead.

This post was last updated by Paul Dimmock Mon, 18 Feb 2019.

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Mon, 18 Feb 2019 #333
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1457 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimmock wrote:
For me, dialogue is the most important thing in life, not the destination but the whole journey of it. But if you or X or Y have other passions, we are never going to meet. So what is your passion? Let's put it this way instead.

Do you mean to say that you have passion for a telegraphic dialogue. One message a day!

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Mon, 18 Feb 2019 #334
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1457 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
You seem to find endless ways to show yourself for being a hypocritical fool.

The reason that I call this guy an anti-k is that he has never changed his way of thinking(since 40 years ago) . If have noticed his way of thinking is based on condemnation or justification. The poor guy hasn't got the first thing that Krishnamurti taught him! What can I say?

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Mon, 18 Feb 2019 #335
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 210 posts in this forum Offline

One Self: Do you mean to say that you have passion for a telegraphic dialogue. One message a day!

One a day; ten a day; what does it matter? You are still avoiding my question. Do you want me to ask it of you ten more times? Would that make for a better dialogue? What to you is the most important thing in life? What is your passion? I have told you mine. What is yours?

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Mon, 18 Feb 2019 #336
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1457 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
The river of Love can be pollute on the way so I gave the very pure source.
The rest is up to you.

You are right:
I've nothing to say for myself only to express my love for the Teaching.

There is no way to have love merely for the teachings and at the same time misunderstanding simple things. Love is simplicity and cannot be directed to merely one person or to a few people.

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Mon, 18 Feb 2019 #337
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1457 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimmock wrote:
What to you is the most important thing in life?

Did you understand what I said about something being important? Importance implies conflict. So don't ask what is important to you? Nothing is important. No VIP nothing.

Paul Dimmock wrote:
What is your passion? I have told you mine. What is yours?

My passion is having more passion.

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #338
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 210 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote: My passion is having more passion.

Right. That's greed. That's the desire for more. It isn't passion. It's like an old man who wants more years of life.

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #339
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1398 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
There is no way to have love merely for the teachings and at the same time misunderstanding simple things. Love is simplicity and cannot be directed to merely one person or to a few people.

That i would have love merely for the teachings that's simple a wrong conclusion.

And the whole reply is simple the expression of your passion to disturb whatever is going on and and that's all you do on this forum to belittle the people who dare to speak out by provoking them into attack or defence.

There is no misunderstanding to see this simple fact.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #340
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimmock wrote:
I did not talk about understanding others or myself. I am talking about finding out what matters most to us in our relationship with one another.

Understanding the conditioning, watching the conditioning, not reacting to the conditioning that is myself.

Paul Dimmock wrote:
Maybe we want to be right; maybe we want to be dominant; maybe we want to express our own carefully formulated opinions.

All of this happens continuously on this site but it seems to strengthen the center rather than bringing understanding.

Paul Dimmock wrote:
For me, dialogue is the most important thing in life, not the destination but the whole journey of it.

Why pick one thing, anything to be interested in? Can you see that this is the self projecting itself? Whatever happened to just observing without choice? When one activity is chosen, preferred then there is a destination in life, a goal, a process, a path.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Tue, 19 Feb 2019.

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #341
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

As I lay in bed last night before going to sleep I though about how long it has been since K died. It will be 33 years this April 17. It's hard to realize that that much time has passed already.

This forum and these discussions are not even a shadow of the discussions that were part of K's talks and dialogues with others such as Dr. Bohm.

Most of us here seem to have self made rules to follow, reasons to be here, ideas of what K said and didn't say. Go back and read what K said or watch on video but don't use these sources to reinforce what you already believe K was pointing out. Start without any ideas or beliefs or looking for justifications for your own erroneous images of what K pointed out.

Most of us posting on this forum have such ridged ideas and beliefs and therefore solid, selfish centers. We seem more interested in being right rather than seeing what is, being what is without choice.

It seems more difficult now to live in harmony with life. Look at the leadership of the US. So many people in this country are being lead by a pathological liar and criminal with a mental age of about 9.

Destruction of almost every kind is every where. And no one who is a position to do so is doing anything to stop or change what is happening. The opposition party is a joke.

It's up to each one of us to be our own source of truth and to live a life that doesn't add to this destruction and decay. Easier said than done. That's what interests me most: Living, really living and not just existing.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Tue, 19 Feb 2019.

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #342
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 210 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine: Why pick one thing, anything, to be interested in? Can you see that this is the self projecting itself? Whatever happened to just observing without choice? When one activity is chosen, preferred, then there is a destination in life, a goal, a process, a path.

But I said it is not about the destination. Can the two of us, you and I, take a journey together? That's all I am asking. Apparently, we can't. Apparently, we'll either give a lot of reasons why we should not or cannot engage in dialogue or we'll give a lot of ideas about how to do it properly. But we don't just do it, and in the doing find out exactly what we can and cannot do. It seems we are always setting limits on our own behaviour and capability. This dialogue is my passion. There is no choice when it is a passion. But very few seem to have the same passion. If your passion is to observe without choice, then go for it. But I don't think it is your passion because if it was then none of this would be a problem. It is just an intellectual position, if you'll forgive me for being so blunt.

This post was last updated by Paul Dimmock Tue, 19 Feb 2019.

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #343
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

Well Paul, apparently, I struck a nerve for you to become so very defensive about what you are doing and what you think I'm doing. Let me be clear; I don't care one way or the other what you think I'm doing or not doing. I also don't care what you are doing. Do anything you want.

I was in a "talkative" mood this morning and felt like making a comment. And like all comments they are based on opinions, conditioning and so on. This forum is pretty much a pointless waste of time.

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #344
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1457 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimmock wrote:
One Self wrote: My passion is having more passion.

Right. That's greed. That's the desire for more. It isn't passion. It's like an old man who wants more years of life.

See how blind we are when it comes to ourselves. Your passion for dialogue is not greed! You want to have dialogue, that is greed. Society and this forum is based on greed. Why condemn greed ! Greed is you ,live with it and don't listen to others who condemn you with their phoney words..

This post was last updated by One Self Tue, 19 Feb 2019.

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #345
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1457 posts in this forum Offline

I have no response to wim or jack . They are deeply hurt and whatever comes out of a hurt man is more hurt. So I suggest to wim an jack to stop responding with condemnatory comments to me. Dig your graves somewhere else.:-)

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #346
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1398 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
I have no response to wim or jack .

What is this other than the response of a hurt man !

One Self wrote:
So I suggest to wim an jack to stop responding with condemnatory comments to me.

There was no condemnation just the observation of a fact !

One Self wrote:
Dig your graves somewhere else.:-)

Since when and where is here a graveyard ?

I will disappoint you as long as possible. ;-()

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #347
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1457 posts in this forum Offline

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/us/politics/...

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #348
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 210 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine: Do anything you want. ... I was in a "talkative" mood this morning and felt like making a comment. And like all comments they are based on opinions, conditioning and so on. This forum is pretty much a pointless waste of time.

But still you come back to it. So we have to face this forum as it is. It is all we have. It is as good or as bad as we make it. So, facing this, what are we to do? It is not an opinion I am offering. I am putting a direct question. I am not interested in opinions at all; I don't have any opinions. Right from the start I have asked if we can find a question that will spark an enquiry or a dialogue. It's my passion, as I said; and I am happy to repeat myself as it is even clearer now what I mean by it. So I am offering you the word 'passion' and you can do with it what you want. You can meet it with your conditioning, with your past, with your knowledge, and go on from there. Or, you can meet it differently. You are not striking any nerve; don't worry about that. I have nothing to get defensive about. But as dialogue is my passion so I am going to do everything I can to sustain or nourish the dialogue. It is all we have. There is no wonderful dialogue taking place in a far corner of the earth. Either it happens here or nowhere. And it is up to us two to make it happen. There is no one else will do it for us.

This post was last updated by Paul Dimmock Tue, 19 Feb 2019.

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #349
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 210 posts in this forum Offline

One Self: You want to have dialogue, that is greed. Society and this forum is based on greed. Why condemn greed! Greed is you, live with it and don't listen to others who condemn you with their phoney words.

I am not condemning greed. I am saying that the desire for more is greed. Don't be so quick to say that the passion for dialogue is also greed. First of all, what is passion? There may be no trace of desire within it. Therefore let's explore it a little. What is passion? Is this a question you would be happy to accept? If so, we'll start a new thread and allow this one to die away.

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #350
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1457 posts in this forum Offline

I was joking, ken pulled a good one.:-)
The world is on fire and we want to get the first seat to see it crumbling.

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #351
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1457 posts in this forum Offline

I was joking, ken pulled a good one.:-)
The world is on fire and we want to get the first seat to see it crumbling.

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #352
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1457 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimmock wrote:
What is passion? Is this a question you would be happy to accept? If so, we'll start a new thread and allow this one to die away.

Yes, why don't we do that. You start the question as you stated above And we(who ever has passion) can say something. Passion is energy is it not? How is energy destroid? Not the law of physics but how is energy or passion destroyed psychologically? Not more passion of coarse.

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #353
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimmock wrote:
I did not talk about understanding others or myself. I am talking about finding out what matters most to us in our relationship with one another.

When you ask this question you are still putting yourself in the center. You see that don't you? Do you think that there is maybe much too much "you" involved with your postings here? Is it possible that you are too concerned with what interests you?

These forums don't work because of things like "one self" and before him there was someone named Getty who was removed by Dev for doing basically what one self is doing now. If Dev was still monitoring this site, which I have been told he is not, one self would have been removed long ago. In fact one self is quite possibly another name Getty is using to post his crap on here again.

One self is obviously deeply disturbed along with being clueless and as long as he dominates this site with his threads no one posts on and his endless inane remarks it's all pointless. You see that don't you?

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Tue, 19 Feb 2019 #354
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1457 posts in this forum Offline

“You work a great deal when you go to the office, you have to work to earn your livelihood, or to do anything else in life. You have been trained to work hard in the commercial world, and you are also willing to work hard in the so-called spiritual world if there is a reward at the end of it. If you are promised a seat in heaven, or if you believe that you can achieve bliss, an everlasting peace, you will work hard to get it; but that is merely an action of greed.” - J. Krishnamurti

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Wed, 20 Feb 2019 #355
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 210 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine: These forums don't work because of things like "one self"... and Getty...

These forums don't work because of you. There is no-one else involved. It is therefore your responsibility to make it work. And when you have the passion for it, it will work. When all your energy is in this, it can't fail. That is why I am asking what matters most to you. If you are more concerned about the behaviours of others then we are stuck because the only one who can change all this is you.

A new topic is starting today - What is passion? - so let's carry on with this in that thread, if we do need to carry on. Otherwise, let's call it a day here with this particular topic. 365 posts is more than enough.

This post was last updated by Paul Dimmock Wed, 20 Feb 2019.

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Wed, 20 Feb 2019 #356
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimmock wrote:
These forums don't work because of you. There is no-one else involved. It is therefore your responsibility to make it work.

I know what you are trying to say and to some degree we all have to make it work here. But when there is as much interference with every thread as we have with "one self" it becomes everyone's problem.

Also your posts seem to be following a kind of formula where you try to sound like K instead of just honestly discussing something.

And the question,"What matters to me the most" is only valid for me and no one else. Ask yourself what matters to you the most, really. Not some answer that tries to imitate sounding like what you think K sounded like. There have been so many people that have come on here over the years who tried to do that.

Are you really interested in what K pointed out? Really? Or are you interested in playing a role?

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Wed, 20 Feb 2019 #357
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 210 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine: I know what you are trying to say and to some degree we all have to make it work here. But when there is as much interference with every thread as we have with "one self" it becomes everyone's problem.

It may partly be the fault of the format of this forum. At the KFA Ning forum, for example, it is possible for the dialogue to branch off into subsidiary conversations rather than follow the strictly linear path that they run along here. Though this branching off also creates its own difficulties. Either way, we are left with the problem of meeting interference. What is the root of this interference? Does it exist anywhere outside of yourself? I am not being provocative; it is a serious question. We only call it interference because of our resistance to it.

(I am not avoiding your other questions, but they would be best posed at the thread on passion, if you would care to join in there. You can ask me anything about K and I am happy to go into it.)

This post was last updated by Paul Dimmock Wed, 20 Feb 2019.

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Mon, 13 May 2019 #358
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1457 posts in this forum Offline

The title of this thread is " can we ask the right question?
Can we remain with this question? By the " we" I mean those who study Krishnamurti, not those who escape from the truth into the verbal image-makings..

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