Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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What are some less known, perhaps overlooked, K teachings?


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Mon, 24 Dec 2018 #1
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 523 posts in this forum Offline

What are some interesting and important K teachings that are less noticed?

One that comes to mind immediately for me is: action without idea! Perhaps at first we feel that the silent mind is passive, open to the the beautiful bird, tree, sunset. Action without idea teaches that silent, open awareness can act! A need is seen and loving action is! The rock can be moved out of the road without thought of gain for oneself or anyone else. It is simply awareness of a need and doing what must be done, without preconception.

There are many K teachings that are less prominent than some of his other teachings but that are important and interesting. What are some less noticed K teachings that you have discovered?

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Mon, 24 Dec 2018 #2
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 523 posts in this forum Offline

jamie f wrote:
How about "Peace on Earth and goodwill to all men"?

Yes. As K said, it is we ourselves that create and make up society. If we spread ill will and wars, that is on us. That is our responsibility. What kind of world do we want? Do we want want peace and goodwill?

Even in this forum, war, ill will, and criticism seem to prevail all too often. How will we change the world if we can't even transform the animosity right here? We are the world. Yet do we really feel the urgency for change?

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 24 Dec 2018.

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Mon, 24 Dec 2018 #3
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1099 posts in this forum Online

Before jack steps in and tries to ruin your opening discussion by image-making and insults I should say something. What Krishnamurti talked about is essentially based on "thinking together". Once we can think together and put our own stupidity aside then we can proceed in thinking together. What prevents thinking together? In the other two threads I have noticed some thinking together takes place but in this open thread it is almost impossible to think together.

This post was last updated by One Self Mon, 24 Dec 2018.

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Mon, 24 Dec 2018 #4
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 523 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
What prevents thinking together?

Yes, thinking together is an important matter. What you're saying, are you not?, is that thinking together is NOT an un-noticed part of K teaching but that it is un-practiced. K frequently begins discussion with "Can we go into this together?" but do we really do that here in this forum?

"Thinking together" means not establishing an authority. K is not an authority and certainly none of us are an authority. "Together" means not putting anyone on a pedestal, yes?

Also, thinking together involves friendliness. If "I" am just going to criticize and take a morally superior position, how is there any thinking together? So thinking together involves beginning with kindness toward each other.

We're also going to have to set aside our pre-conceived ideas to think together. If we begin with conclusions we are again only imposing and controlling rather than being open to examining together.

It actually takes a degree of selflessness and awareness to think together, doesn't it? Without conformity to our own ideas or those of others participating.

If we can think together, we're beginning freshly, aren't we?

Yes, "thinking together" is extremely important. Yet do we really do it?

Please, what else can we say about "thinking together?"

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Mon, 24 Dec 2018 #5
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 523 posts in this forum Offline

jamie f wrote:
One could withdraw from a society that is seemingly unable to do nothing about the ugliness. That would have an effect.

Would it? I wonder. Certainly hermits have been going off to solitude for ages, to Himalayan caves or to secluded monasteries or huts. Perhaps there is something to taking some time for quiet reflection, for retreat.

But this can also be spiritualized escapism. Whether we sequester ourselves or live engaged in the world, we still must face ourselves. We must look square on at our conditioning, our reactivity, our wanting to confront or to run, our fear in relationship. This seeing alone is transformation, yes?

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 24 Dec 2018.

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Mon, 24 Dec 2018 #6
Thumb_stringio Huguette . Canada 502 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Even in this forum, war, ill will, and criticism seem to prevail all too often. How will we change the world if we can't even transform the animosity right here?

But can I change the world if I can’t even transform myself? If “I” have no ill will, that may or may not act in relationship. But if I MYSELF HAVE ill will, that ill will or hostility CERTAINLY acts in relationship, despite all attempts to conceal it from others and from myself. No?

This post was last updated by Huguette . Mon, 24 Dec 2018.

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Mon, 24 Dec 2018 #7
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 523 posts in this forum Offline

Huguette . wrote:
But if I MYSELF HAVE ill will, that ill will or hostility CERTAINLY acts in relationship, despite all attempts to conceal it from others and from myself.

Yes. To truly be aware of yourself is to transform yourself. To transform yourself is to transform the world. Do we do it? Or does inner and outer conflict continue?

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Mon, 24 Dec 2018 #8
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 523 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D's tagline quotes Krishnamurti:

Be scrupulously clean. And you must be well dressed. Always, even at home when you are alone.

Of course, there is such a thing as obsessive compulsive disorder which can involve constantly washing your hands.

This quote from K puts cleanliness into a bit more perspective:

Krishnamurti, Think On These Things, Chapter 20:

We must all have good manners, we must be physically clean and dress tastefully, without ostentation, we must be punctual, clear in our speech, and all the rest of it. These things are necessary and they create a pleasant atmosphere; but by themselves they have not much significance. It is inward beauty that gives grace, an exquisite gentleness to outward form and movement. And what is this inward beauty without which one's life is very shallow? Have you ever thought about it? Probably not.

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Mon, 24 Dec 2018 #9
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 523 posts in this forum Offline

jamie f wrote:
That's not what I had in mind. I'm not cut out for living in a hut.

Oh! Then what did you mean by, "One could withdraw from a society..."?

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 24 Dec 2018.

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Tue, 25 Dec 2018 #10
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1099 posts in this forum Online

idiot ? wrote:
what else can we say about "thinking together?".

At the moment of great crisis people think together and cooperate with each other to resolve their great problem. But we(the active people in this forum ) don't see the necessity to think together and resolve the world ever increasing problems. If each one of us sees and truly realizes that "the house is on fire." as k said a thousand times then we may start to see that "thinking together" is essential for human beings living in this planet.

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Tue, 25 Dec 2018 #11
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 523 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
we may start to see that "thinking together" is essential

Yes. Whether it is the world or just this forum, there won't be any real change unless we go into questions together, listening, understanding, exploring.

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Tue, 25 Dec 2018 #12
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5517 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Before jack steps in and tries to ruin your opening discussion by image-making and insults I should say something.

It appears that you have arrived at the point where you can't post without first criticizing me. Is that something you think a well person does? Why are you so afraid of me?

One Self wrote:
What Krishnamurti talked about is essentially based on "thinking together".

No, "thinking together" is not what K essentially based anything on. He pointed out that thinking is limited, is conditioned, is the past. So why would he suggest that we "do this together"? Do you have some references that support this opinion?

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Tue, 25 Dec 2018 #13
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5517 posts in this forum Offline

Each one must discover and experience Reality and in that alone is there joy, serenity and highest wisdom.

Quote from Dec 25, 2018

K seems to be saying that joy, serenity and the highest wisdom is not a group effort, does not come about through "thinking together" but rather comes about with each of us discovering and experiencing reality alone.

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Tue, 25 Dec 2018 #14
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 523 posts in this forum Offline

Here is an audio recording of K discussing the importance of "thinking together:"

https://www.jkrishnamurti.org/content/thinking-...

(The entire point of this thread is to go into lesser known topics that K discussed. So if some of us have never heard K talking about "thinking together," that means we are being successful at together discovering lesser known K teachings. As to whether these are essential teachings, that's why I posted the companion thread on the most important teachings, but people seem less interested in that thread than this one so far.)

This post was last updated by idiot ? Tue, 25 Dec 2018.

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Tue, 25 Dec 2018 #15
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5517 posts in this forum Offline

Maybe we're talking about two different meanings of "thinking together".

Here is another fragment of a quote from K about thinking together:

The Whole Movement of Life is Learning: Chapter 40

The art of thinking together needs to be studied carefully, examined to see whether it is at all possible. Each one clings to his own way of thinking according to his own particular reactions, experiences, prejudices. This is how we are conditioned, and it prevents having the capacity to think together. Thinking together does not mean being of one mind. Our minds can come together about an ideal, an historical conclusion or some philosophical concept, and work for that, but this is essentially based on authority. Freedom is the essence of thinking together. You must be free from your concepts, prejudices, and so on. I too must be free, and we come together in this freedom. It means dropping all our conditioning. It implies complete attention without any past. The present world crisis demands that we totally abandon our tribal instincts that have become glorified as nationalism. Thinking together implies that we totally abandon self- interest and identifying ourselves as British, Arab, Russian and so on.

What is the point of thinking together if we are still conditioned, still separated into our own groups of nationalism, organized religions, races and all the rest? Or is thinking together just agreeing with each other's opinions, beliefs and prejudices while being all lovey-dovey?

K also points out in the above quote that we must be free of the past, which is thought in the traditional sense. Maybe communicating together would be a more accurate term to use.

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Wed, 26 Dec 2018 #16
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1099 posts in this forum Online

Ken D wrote:
What

Ken D wrote:
What is the point of thinking together if we are still conditioned, still separated into our own groups of nationalism, organized religions, races and all the rest? Or is thinking together just agreeing with each other's opinions, beliefs and prejudices while being all lovey-dovey?

We can only "think together" when we don't belong to a sect..,

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Wed, 26 Dec 2018 #17
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 523 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
What is the point of thinking together if we are still conditioned, still separated into our own groups of nationalism, organized religions, races and all the rest? Or is thinking together just agreeing with each other's opinions, beliefs and prejudices while being all lovey-dovey?

The point is that awareness, whether done by an individual, or whether explored by a group discovering if it is possible to think together, dissolves conditioning. Yes, awareness operates from now, not from the past and conditioning. Awareness is not necessarily confined to a single individual. It is not bounded.

K asks if it is possible to think together. It may not be. It may be remarkably fragile, shattered by one or more participants clinging to their held ideas, their separatism. But it may be possible. And K seems to suggest that discovering if it is possible is very worthwhile.

As to whether thinking together is "just agreeing with each other's opinions, beliefs and prejudices," K specifically and emphatically says it is not.

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Wed, 26 Dec 2018 #18
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 523 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D quoted Alfred North Whitehead:
Religion is solitariness.

K certainly suggests spending some time alone. In solitude, there is an opportunity for quiet reflection and exploration, a momentary rest from the needs of interaction. K's discussion of solitude may indeed be a less noticed and important teaching. We can examine it more deeply if people would like.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Wed, 26 Dec 2018.

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Wed, 26 Dec 2018 #19
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 523 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
We can only "think together" when we don't belong to a sect...

Yes. As long as we section ourselves off into this or that category, then "together" clearly isn't happening. To really think together, there has to be setting aside of divisions and preconceived ideas, yes? Because if we begin divided, we're already at argumentation. Conflict is rather easy, but to suspend our conflictual impulses and discover what can be discovered together? That could be remarkable!

This post was last updated by idiot ? Wed, 26 Dec 2018.

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Wed, 26 Dec 2018 #20
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1099 posts in this forum Online

idiot ? wrote:
Here is an audio recording of K discussing the importance of "thinking together:"

https://www.jkrishnamurti.org/content/thinking-...

All it takes is to listen to the audio and then write something. But it seems that only me and idiot have listen to it. That shows lack of interest in the teaching .

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Wed, 26 Dec 2018 #21
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1357 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
That shows lack of interest in the teaching .

so in your perception it is impossible to live in reality if the teaching has not been studied and understood.

this contradict as well as the teaching as well as the live of Krishnamurti, who never studied the teaching.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Thu, 27 Dec 2018 #22
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1099 posts in this forum Online

Wim Opdam wrote:
so in your perception it is impossible to live in reality if the teaching has not been studied and understood.

this contradict as well as the teaching as well as the live of Krishnamurti, who never studied the teaching.

Wim, by no means I am being sarcastic . I have no clue what you are sharing with us .May be one of your friends in this forum be kind enough to translate your language in a simple form to me. I think you first think in your native language and then you translate it in English.

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Thu, 27 Dec 2018 #23
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1099 posts in this forum Online

Krishnamurti is the best thing that has ever happened to this world.

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Thu, 27 Dec 2018 #24
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 790 posts in this forum Offline

jamie f wrote:
This forum has always been a bit of a bear pit. However, the protagonists are slugging it out not only in their mind but in your mind too. That is why you are part of the violence.

Hi Jamie and all. I must admit that I laughed when I heard this forum being described as "a bear pit". It just seemed funny to me. I never think of this place as a bear pit or consider that I'm slugging it out with anyone. Have I ever verbally slugged you Jamie? Maybe I have but I hope not.

I suppose we are the world and we are this forum and have to take responsibility for both the state of this forum and our actions. Are you a violent slugger Jamie or am I? If we are, can coming here throw any light on our violence and perhaps help us understand it?

Well, it's winter and I guess us bears should really be hibernating ......

This post was last updated by Sean Hen Thu, 27 Dec 2018.

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Thu, 27 Dec 2018 #25
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5517 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Wim, by no means I am being sarcastic . I

Maybe what Wim was trying to point out was, as some of us noted, your conclusion is without logic or merit. A conclusion is invalid if the premises are invalid. You don't know who has listen to the link or what they thought of it. And by your listening to it doesn't provide any proof that you have understood it or changed in any way. Often, it appears that you jump to conclusions without any basis in fact.

Just as your statement that, " Krishnamurti is the best thing that has ever happened to this world.", is one of worshipful emotion and adulation and not one with any meaning or understanding of what K was.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Thu, 27 Dec 2018.

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Thu, 27 Dec 2018 #26
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 523 posts in this forum Offline

jamie f wrote:
This forum has always been a bit of a bear pit. However, the protagonists are slugging it out not only in their mind but in your mind too. That is why you are part of the violence.

Yes. I hear you. Sometimes I go away from the forum when it's seems to degenerate into insults, animosity. Sometimes it seems there is little interest in looking together at questions with friendliness. Then I seem to come back to see if some of us are interested in K and going into matters.

It's natural when faced with violence, even when we are not directly attacked, to put up a wall, to erect a barrier against the pain, yes? We seek protection, security. But can we just shove our heads in the ground and hide? If we are honest, we have to face what is, don't we?

Others respond by returning insults and violence. They jump in the fray and attack back. Therefore they just become part of the whirl and spread of the cruelty, all the while feeling justified in their own minds.

K discussed having sensitivity, innocence. And there are plenty of descriptions of him being weary of interaction with us violent and conflicted folk. He would take time to renew in nature and away from the clash. Then he would return with openness, no defenses, to again work to set man unconditionally free.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Thu, 27 Dec 2018.

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Thu, 27 Dec 2018 #27
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5517 posts in this forum Offline

Idiot, what it appears like is that you are separating yourself from others. You are the "good" poster without violence or anger trying to post relevant things about K while "violent" others are causing havoc and disorder. These weren't your words but they describe the feeling of what you write.

Get off your high-horse sister and join the rest of humanity. Also, I might point out again that lengthy theorizing of what you think K was pointing out is not, necessarily, understanding what K was pointing out.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Thu, 27 Dec 2018.

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Thu, 27 Dec 2018 #28
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1099 posts in this forum Online

Jack Pine wrote:
Just as your statement that, " Krishnamurti is the best thing that has ever happened to this world.", is one of worshipful emotion and adulation and not one with any meaning or understanding of what K was.

Krishnamurti tells a story about the two thieves who were in the market and there was a preacher speaking the truth. One of the thieves listens to the preacher and the other one shut his ears and didn't listen to him. The one who didn't listen to the truth went on with his daily routine(steeling and so on) but the one who listened to the truth never had a peace of mind in his life again. So that is something you should consider. All you are is conclusion , don't fight it.

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Thu, 27 Dec 2018 #29
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5517 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
So that is something you should consider. All you are is conclusion , don't fight it.

You're not kidding are you? That story is so half-baked that you most likely made it up on the spot.

You accuse me of being nothing but conclusion and yet you end this with another meaningless conclusion. And are you suggesting that YOU are the voice of truth and reason? Are you really that deluded? Anyway you asked for one of Wim's friends to explain what he was saying. So I obliged you. Be careful what you ask for.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Thu, 27 Dec 2018.

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Thu, 27 Dec 2018 #30
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5517 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
Yes, let's descend to the lowest common denominator.

You mean with like with many of the cartoons you post?

You know that is not what I was saying Ken. Idiot seems to believe that she is being non-violent and is a part from violence when she accuses others of being violent. That is also a kind of violence. She seems to believe that she is someone above the fray here and not, herself, subject to being violent. She is separating herself from the rest of humanity or at least from some people on this forum.

Are we separate human beings or do we share a common conditioning which includes violence? Can we escape violence by simply accusing others of being violent while declaring directly or indirectly that we are not part of violence?

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