Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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The surprising lack of gratitude


Displaying posts 121 - 150 of 179 in total
Sun, 28 Oct 2018 #121
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 667 posts in this forum Offline

Myself Wrote wrote:
I think you are referring to contentment.

No, I am referring to gratitude. Many here want to limit the word "gratitude" to certain specific, restricted meanings. The word actually can be understood in many important ways that vary greatly. Hence, then entire point of this thread: to explore gratitude thoroughly and not be caught in a limited understanding of it.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Sun, 28 Oct 2018.

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Sun, 28 Oct 2018 #122
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 329 posts in this forum Offline

Myself Wrote wrote:
Do you mean that if someone accused you of something that you are not you should be silent?

No. You have totally misunderstood what I say.

Myself Wrote wrote:
Every word has another word as a reaction. If you call me an "idiot"then there is an immediate reaction to that word which is another word, depending on the person's background.

Yes. Sadly, it is obvious that one live at the level of words. That is the source of our contradictions, which breed hypocrisy, conscious or uncouscious, and misunderstanding.

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Sun, 28 Oct 2018.

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Sun, 28 Oct 2018 #123
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 329 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
It means mentally handicapped. In some of us, thinking isn't happening the way it is in others.

Yes. Because our thinking is partial, fragmentary. One cannot see anything as a whole, totaly. One have the personal. But the personal is include in the totality. The content of consciousness, the totality of it, is not personal. It is not yours nor mine.

But if I say that, here, then I am for sure an idiot, wihtout the question mark. Though I am grateful to have had this conversation.

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Sun, 28 Oct 2018.

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Sun, 28 Oct 2018 #124
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1408 posts in this forum Offline

thank (th?ngk)
tr.v. thanked, thank·ing, thanks
1. To express gratitude to; give thanks to: He thanked her for the gift.
2. To hold responsible; credit: We can thank the parade for this traffic jam.
3. Used ironically in the future tense to express a rebuke: I'll thank you to keep quiet until the presentation is finished.
[Middle English thanken, from Old English thancian; see tong- in Indo-European roots.].

tong- / Indo-European roots
Examples of words with the root tong-: bethink, methinks, thank, think, thought.
tong-
To think, feel.


  1. thank from Old English thanc, thought, good will, and thancian, to thank, from Germanic thankaz, thought, gratitude, and thank?n, to think of, thank.

  2. bethink, think from Old English (bi)thencan, to think, from Germanic *(bi-)thankjan.

  3. thought from Old English (ge)th?ht, thought, from Germanic (ga)thanht- (ga-, collective prefix; see kom)

  4. methinks from Old English thyncan, to seem, from Germanic *thunkjan.
    [Pokorny 1. tong- 1088.]

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #125
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5736 posts in this forum Offline

Myself Wrote wrote:
I think you are referring to contentment. Contentment is the outcome of understanding.

You couldn't be more wrong about "contentment". You said you have read K, "all his books" yet apparently you have no idea what he was saying:

Is contentment to be found? Is peace a thing to be found by the process of the intellect? Is happiness a thing gotten by the understanding or by the creation of the opposite of what it is? Reflexion On the Self, 6th Talk in Bombay, Feb 25, 1953

A man who says, "I want to attain contentment, " is surely already in a state of stagnation. He is only concerned with being enclosed in a state wherein nothing will disturb him, so his contentment is really the ultimate security, which is undisturbed isolation. Contentment which is achieved, and which we call the highest spiritual attainment, is really a condition of decay. Second Talk New York, June 11, 1950

So in this search for contentment, comfort, your thoughts and feelings become shallow, barren, trivial, and life becomes an empty shell. But if you see the absurdity of substitution and perceive the illusion of contentment with its achievement, then there is great depth to thought and feeling; then action itself reveals the significance of life. 4th Talk at Adyar, Madras, India, Jan 1, 1934

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Mon, 29 Oct 2018.

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #126
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5736 posts in this forum Offline

BS, Do you see that mostly what you post are just your opinions that have nothing to do with what K pointed out or any insight that has come from understanding yourself? Please reconsider what you are doing here which, mainly, seems to be lecturing to the rest of us and setting rules for the rest of us and reducing this forum to it's lowest common denominator.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Mon, 29 Oct 2018.

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #127
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5736 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
The word actually can be understood in many important ways that vary greatly. Hence, then entire point of this thread: to explore gratitude thoroughly and not be caught in a limited understanding of it.

Who cares, for Christ sake? You have beaten it to death. This is a Krishnamurti forum where, ostensibly, we are here to discuss what K pointed out. Not some trivial pursuit of why K rarely, if ever, expressed gratitude.

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #128
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1408 posts in this forum Offline

Jack is blind ,he can't even see my name.:-) The only thing he knows is that he is in Krishnamurti forum.:-) By the way this is the only language he knows ,insults ,just like his president.:-)

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #129
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5736 posts in this forum Offline

BS, until you stop blaming others for your shortcomings then and only then will you begin to see yourself as you really are. Be careful it's going to be a shock.

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #130
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1408 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
BS, until you stop blaming others for your shortcomings then and only then will you begin to see yourself as you really are. Be careful it's going to be a shock.

As long as you are psychological and personal no one will ever like or listen to your BS in this site or any other site , just get that simple fact. (But then again who cares what happens to this antisocial character) . I say no one..

This post was last updated by One Self Mon, 29 Oct 2018.

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #131
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5736 posts in this forum Offline

BS, you need to quit focusing on me and others and see that most of what you are putting out here is opinionated gibberish. You mentioned contentment in the usual context of our conditioning which is quite apart from the way K saw it.

This is a site dedicated to exploring what Krishnamurti pointed out not for your off-handed and confused opinions. Do you understand that? I showed you three examples of what K said about "contentment" which, of course, was diametrically opposed to what you said about it. Can you let go of your ego, yourself, long enough to at least look into what K pointed out? If you can't why are you here?

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #132
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 667 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
...what you are putting out here is opinionated gibberish...your off-handed and confused opinions.

K suggested that people come together to dialogue about issues of concern in a friendly way. Jack Pine, you have the second largest number of posts of all time in this forum. How many of them have been friendly? How many of them have been attacks, either on the person posting or on what they are saying?

What is driving you to turn this into a battleground, rather than a friendly discussion as K encouraged? My guess is that your answer will be directed outward and that you will not turn 180 degrees and look there.

You are always asking others to look at themselves. But do you see the aggression in many of your own posts and where that is coming from?

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 29 Oct 2018.

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #133
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1408 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
K suggested that people come together to dialogue about issues of concern in a friendly way.

Isn't that essential to be friendly and understanding to discover the truth?

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #134
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5736 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
What is driving you to turn this into a battleground, rather than a friendly discussion as K encouraged?

Well for two things the stupid crap you are putting on here, "gratitude" and what you have named K's "superstition" that have nothing to do with what K pointed out or of looking at yourself. Your topics are much better suited to beauty parlor or barber shop gossip than to this forum.

And you could have, based on your conclusions in your above post, ask BS the same question with equal or greater justification. But that would have been fair and balanced. So basically you are doing to me, with your post I am answering here, what you are accusing me of. I mean, idiot?, how is your critical post of me different than the posts you are accusing me of? If, or when, you post something that has to do with the purpose of this forum I will be delighted to discuss it with you in a manner appropriate to this site.

The other thing is, and while you won't admit it on here, you know as well as many of the rest of us that BS is loading this forum with complete non-sense. Yes, I know he is mentally impaired but that doesn't excuse his endless crap posts about basically nothing and his ridiculous opinions. You asked I answered.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Mon, 29 Oct 2018.

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #135
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3169 posts in this forum Offline

Jack: The other thing is, and while you won't admit it on here, you know as well as many of the rest of us that BS is loading this forum with complete non-sense. Yes, I know he is mentally impaired but that doesn't excuse his endless crap posts about basically nothing. You asked I answered.

What is the proper response to one like Myself Wrote, whoever he may be underneath the alias...or anyone else....who is so psychologically imbalanced that they use the forums for their own self aggrandizement or to satisfy some other unconscious emotional need...to prop up their own ego and beliefs? Then there’s the issue of passive aggression which pops up here at times. Does one feel a friendly, fruitful discussion is possible under these conditions?

Let it Be

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #136
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5736 posts in this forum Offline

Well Tom I think your above post has some very serious and reasonable questions.

I know your questions may be somewhat rhetorical and for the most part I will leave it that way. There is no answer to your first question. At least not one that would mean anything to BS because he doesn't see how incredibly hypocritical his response is. The same for the next question.

As I pointed out above, what is the point of having a fruitful, friendly discussion when the topic in question has nothing whatsoever to do with understanding yourself using what K pointed out as a mirror? I appreciate your post.

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #137
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 667 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
What is the proper response...

Kindness, love, and respect toward everyone. Isn't that possible?

Tom Paine wrote:
Does one feel a friendly, fruitful discussion is possible under these conditions?

It can be difficult. But do personal attacks help? If I behave in an angry way toward my neighbor and my neighbor then takes it out on someone else, aren't I just contributing to the spread of animosity around the world? Partly because of this, doesn't K ask us to look closely at ourselves in relationship?

Nothing requires any of us to participate in a thread or some part of a thread. If there was zero fruitful discussion here, who would stay? Sometimes there is friendly investigation together. Can't we focus and respond there?

Have you ever gone for a beautiful walk with some friends? The sky and the trees are so fresh. You come upon a barking, yappy dog. You are kind to the dog but no matter what you do it just goes on barking. It is not really a dangerous dog. Maybe it gets into a fight with another dog. Maybe your friends get distracted from the great beauty of the walk and all their attention goes to the dog yapping. Yelling at the dog won't help. And even ignoring the dog won't stop its behavior. But the great beauty that surrounds you is still there. Where are you going to put your focus?

(By the way, who is the dog? To you, I may be. To someone else, you may be. For someone in the world, K may be! In any case, we each have responsibility for what we do and for how we respond in relationship.)

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 29 Oct 2018.

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #138
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1408 posts in this forum Offline

K: Contentment is another matter. It is arduous to be content. Contentment cannot be searched out in secret places; it is not to be pursued, as pleasure is; it is not to be acquired; it cannot be bought at the price of renunciation; it has no price at all; it is not reached by any means; it is not to be meditated upon and gathered. The pursuit of contentment is only the search for greater satisfaction. Contentment is the complete understanding of what is from moment to moment; it is the highest form of negative understanding. Gratification knows frustration and success, but contentment knows no opposites with their empty conflict. Contentment is above and beyond the opposites; it is not a synthesis, for it has no relation to conflict. Conflict can only produce more conflict, it breeds further illusion and misery. With contentment comes action that is not contradictory. Contentment of the heart frees the mind from its activities of confusion and distraction. Contentment is a movement that is not of time. Series II - Chapter 25 - ‘The Family And The Desire For Security’

This post was last updated by One Self Mon, 29 Oct 2018.

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #139
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1408 posts in this forum Offline

Myself Wrote :
"Contentment is the complete understanding of what is from moment to moment; it is the highest form of negative understanding."

This post was last updated by One Self Mon, 29 Oct 2018.

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #140
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1408 posts in this forum Offline

Idiot ,what you say is rational but to people like jack and his allies who intentionally live in illusions there cannot be any communication. It is like describing light to a blind man .

This post was last updated by One Self Mon, 29 Oct 2018.

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #141
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 667 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
there can also be just a feeling of gratitude. It can be directed nowhere or everywhere. It is just a grateful feeling for everything, everyone.

-

Myself Wrote wrote:
I think you are referring to contentment. Contentment is the outcome of understanding.

Now that you have quoted K on contentment, I have to change what I said and agree that universal gratitude and contentment are not separate. But really this is the wordless and feelingless realm where all description fails.

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #142
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1408 posts in this forum Offline

If you notice jack is not allowed to post any of his BS in the two other discussion groups because of his rudeness and that makes him more frustrated and jealous. Even mike pain is allowed to post there not him.:-)

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #143
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3169 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
You come upon a barking, yappy dog. You are kind to the dog but no matter what you do it just goes on barking.

So you are kind to the stray dog and take him into your home and feed him. He pisses all over your rug and chews on your furniture. Do you respond with kindness and just let it go on? Some action other than kindness is necessary right? I agree that hostility towards the dog won’t help, and would likely exasperate the situation.

Let it Be

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #144
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1408 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Yelling at the dog won't help. And even ignoring the dog won't stop its behavior.

It's a dog's life.:-(

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #145
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 667 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
So you are kind to the stray dog and take him into your home and feed him. He pisses all over your rug and chews on your furniture. Do you respond with kindness and just let it go on? Some action other than kindness is necessary right?

This forum is home for all of us to dialogue. We cannot throw anyone out of it. If things get bad, we can make a case to the moderator. Only he can throw someone out, as has happened in the past. Isn't this so?

By the way, to me, the moderator does an excellent job because he rarely intervenes. He gives us a lot freedom, a lot of leeway. This means it is on us to be responsible. To me this is preferable to tight control and censorship. But there is a limit. When necessary, he has stepped in in the past and I assume he will in the future if necessary.

I have only emailed him long ago, when things got pretty bad. I have no idea if he took any action. For the most part I think being tolerant here is very important and watching your reaction in relationship. If something or someone annoys you, it is very interesting to watch and understand your reaction, isn't it?

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 29 Oct 2018.

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #146
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5736 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
This forum is home for all of us to dialogue.

Yes, dialoguing about something pertinent to what K was talking about not just something someone dreams up and becomes obsessed with. This is not anyone's blog upon which they can post anything that comes into their mind.

The two threads that you started that I objected to were the ones where you accused K of being superstitious and the one where you seemed to be outraged that he wasn't "grateful" enough to suit you. You're engaging in gossip, innuendo, speculation and rumor but very little, if anything, about what K pointed out.

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Mon, 29 Oct 2018 #147
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5736 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Kindness, love, and respect toward everyone. Isn't that possible?

You certainly don't do that. Those are just ideals we are all familiar with. You certainly don't show K much respect with your accusations.

And your passive/aggressive approach is also certainly not the above ideals you rolled out.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Mon, 29 Oct 2018.

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Tue, 30 Oct 2018 #148
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3169 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
idiot ? wrote:

Kindness, love, and respect toward everyone. Isn't that possible?

Jack: You certainly don't do that. Those are just ideals we are all familiar with.

OK...kindness, love and respect. Is that an ideal, as Jack says, or an actuality, when faced with a Donald trump or a madman with fanatical beliefs and ideals? I'm not saying that we're faced with anything that extreme here, but perhaps some of what I pointed out above in post 136 is making meaningful discussion and dialog impossible here.

Let it Be

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Tue, 30 Oct 2018 #149
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5736 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
OK...kindness, love and respect. Is that an ideal, as Jack says, or an actuality,

Obviously, kindness, love and respect can be actualities. But for someone who uses the words but doesn't practice them then they are ideals. To put it bluntly, I don't believe idiot? is, herself, practicing these things. I don't think I am either. The difference may be that I'm not trying to practice or become anything. I am not trying to live up to anyone's standards. Standards are an expression of your conditioning, your beliefs.

She brings empty topics to this forum and then acts surprised when someone points that out.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Tue, 30 Oct 2018.

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Tue, 30 Oct 2018 #150
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1408 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Now that you have quoted K on contentment, I have to change what I said and agree that universal gratitude and contentment are not separate. But really this is the wordless and feelingless realm where all description fails.

That is good,you admit your mistake ,that shows you have a living mind,unlike some who have a dead mind in here and continue defending their image-making illnesses.

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