Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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fundamental change or revealing true character ?


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Mon, 08 Oct 2018 #1
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1186 posts in this forum Offline

i've noticed the change of one of our forum members not only in name but also in image.
Goodman B with the ape image is changed in ' myself only ' with the image of flying geese.

taking on another name , image and or clothing seems to me more a flight of your real self then a fundamental change of the self.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Mon, 08 Oct 2018 #2
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1201 posts in this forum Offline

What is true change?

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Tue, 09 Oct 2018 #3
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1186 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
What is true change?

I have no idea what true change is, but I know that changing names is a very diverse way of humanity to pretend differently from what they realy are.

there is a Bible story to become an inheritance, the nuns and fathers take a different outfit besides another name, the pope also takes part in the same tradition and I have heard that it is no different with the buddhist monks, we have recently had the same attempts at Mr. Baghwan later Osho and if we look at the list of participants on the forum it is very likely that there are many who do not use their own name, even criminals use this phenomenon.

another group exchange their clothing, such as judges and lawyers, to create a so-called distinction between function and man

in short, it is flight behavior and as such it reveals the working of the ego as a continuation of the old.

The working of the brain is still the same although the content of what they think may differ.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Tue, 09 Oct 2018.

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Tue, 09 Oct 2018 #4
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1201 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
in short, it is flight behavior and as such it reveals the working of the ego as a continuation of the old.

Continuation of the old? That means the known. Then ending the known would be change?

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Wed, 10 Oct 2018 #5
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1186 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Continuation of the old? That means the known. Then ending the known would be change?

can we formulate it in this way, because that would mean that the known would have ended, is it not that its effect is being shut down?

What is visible is that the adopting of a new name, different clothing or other behavior fits into a very old tradition of deviding and is not an essential change.

What happens when you understand that these well-trodden paths are, is a different story, maybe a oppurtinity for something new?

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Wed, 10 Oct 2018.

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Wed, 10 Oct 2018 #6
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1201 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
What happens when you understand that these well-trodden paths are, is a different story, maybe a oppurtinity for something new?

What do you mean here?

Do you mean to say here? If I pounce on the word 'path' that would mean having roots in the previous step which is the past & therefore not change.

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Thu, 11 Oct 2018 #7
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1186 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
If I pounce on the word 'path' that would mean having roots in the previous step which is the past & therefore not change

The word "path" has no meaning

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:

Wim Opdam wrote:

What happens when you understand that these well-trodden paths are, is a different story, maybe a oppurtinity for something new?

May be the word 'are' is not on its right place and should be between 'these' and 'well-trodden' but the whole sentence is pointing to "It's old crap ".

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Fri, 12 Oct 2018 #8
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1201 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
taking on another name , image and or clothing seems to me more a flight of your real self then a fundamental change of the self.

This is not change.

But what is fundamental change of the self?

Change would mean not the same, right? So is change & creativity connected? Because not the same would mean something new, right ?What is creativity?

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Sat, 13 Oct 2018 #9
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1186 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Change would mean not the same, right?

Superficially it seems so, but creativity is also used to present the same as change. To define change in the sense of what K. meant is impossible because in the same instance one make it into the known and that's precisely the working of the mind, so even what is called creativity is in this sense within a certain structure and as such not at all creative.

One can discover what is not change and/Or creative in that sense, That's all what one can do.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Sat, 13 Oct 2018.

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Tue, 16 Oct 2018 #10
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1201 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
To define change in the sense of what K. meant is impossible because in the same instance one make it into the known and that's precisely the working of the mind, so even what is called creativity is in this sense within a certain structure and as such not at all creative.

Cannot there be letting go constantly so that there is a certain newness?

Is making into the old inevitable? Is there no way out?

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1 day ago #11
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1281 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Cannot there be letting go constantly so that there is a certain newness?

Is making into the old inevitable? Is there no way out?

Hello Jayaraj and Wim

This brings back Jayaraj's, question of whether the image making process can stop. For me the possible answer lies in the clarity with which I see this operating in myself. It stems obviously from our violent and dangerous past where creating a correct image of something or someone could mean life or death for the body. The recognition of the face of an enemy or a dangerous creature or situation etc. Now it has been 'carried over' into the psychological and it separates my friends from my enemies and that provides me with a sense of 'order'. It has become quite automatic. Now when I experiment with not bringing the old images forward say with someone that I have had 'bad' relations with and attempt to see them anew without the baggage of the past, what happens? There is fear. The negative image I have of the other is 'preferable' to no image at all. Why is that? I prefer to keep the 'old' because without my old images, memories, feelings of hurt and pleasure...without those, what would I be? Nothing? So I 'escape' from the present constantly by 'protecting' myself with the past. And it could only be, it seems to me, that this image-making could end is through the total understanding of seeing it and the fear underlying it in the moment. What do you say?

This post was last updated by Dan McDermott 1 day ago.

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