Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Do we intentionally try to misunderstand or are we conditioned to misunderstand and argue with each other like politicians do all the time?


Displaying posts 61 - 90 of 93 in total
Mon, 08 Oct 2018 #61
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 288 posts in this forum Offline

Myself Only wrote:
It is an illusion to think that we all think the same or some of "us" think the same.

Of course. So, do we see the problem now ? The problem is the conditioning, the images, the past experiences interfering in the present. Which express itself as thought, which breed conflict. Then what is right thinking ?

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Mon, 08 Oct 2018.

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Mon, 08 Oct 2018 #62
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5302 posts in this forum Offline

So Goodman B is now Myself Only. GB or MO frankly your posts, most of them, have nothing to do with what was written to you or to what you are responding to. My last couple of posts before this one were trying to explain to you what Rich said because you obviously misunderstood.

I don't mean this in a hurtful way but your reading comprehension is sub-par. Either that is an inherent quality or you, possibly, are a drinker. If the latter I suggest you refrain while posting here. If the former....well I'm sorry.

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Mon, 08 Oct 2018 #63
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 678 posts in this forum Offline

Rich Nolet wrote:
Of course. So, do we see the problem now ? The problem is the conditioning, the images, the past experiences interfering in the present. Which express itself as thought, which breed conflict. Then what is right thinking ?

Yes, that is the problem. The image that we have of others even though keeps changing is the main factor of misunderstanding. Now the question is what is right thinking,what is right conduct? To find out what right thinking is one has to see clearly what right thinking is not. Surely arguing or debating never leads to right thinking. It wears out the mind. And a worn out mind can't think clearly. Right thinking has to start fresh without the conclusions of the past. We can pull out what k says about right thinking and conduct but then we depend on k which is not using our minds..

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Mon, 08 Oct 2018 #64
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5302 posts in this forum Offline

Myself Only wrote:
It is an illusion to think that we all think the same or some of "us" think the same.

Well K thought we pretty much have a common conditioning that only varies in a minor way from culture to culture. We all do share the pain of living: Loneliness, fear, greed, anger, insecurity and so on. And this conditioning is the basis of thought so it appears that one could say that all human beings pretty much think alike. We are not separate. Religion and nationality and other institutions separate us in a superficial way but inwardly human beings are pretty much the same.

Fairly sure that was one of the things K was pointing out for 60 some years.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Mon, 08 Oct 2018.

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Mon, 08 Oct 2018 #65
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 678 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
I don't mean this in a hurtful way but your reading comprehension is sub-par.

Your comprehension is retarded jack that is why you are obsessed with Goodman all the time. Step out of it ,you will get nowhere by making things up in your head. The image that you manipulate in your head about Goodman is false and contaminated.. Answer to the discussions not to the image you made of Goodman all the time. And Hell with English, don't be a high school teacher in here. I sometime intentionally misspell some words so others don't become too literal .

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Mon, 08 Oct 2018 #66
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 288 posts in this forum Offline

Yes Jack. At a certain level, we are all alike. We have fears, we have believes, we are looking for security, we think and all that. But at another level, we think differently when it comes to religion, nationality or god, as some example. This breed conflict and sometime bloody war, isn't it ? This is how we are alike, with the same fundations, and at the same time in conflict.

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Mon, 08 Oct 2018 #67
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5302 posts in this forum Offline

Myself Only wrote:
Your comprehension is retarded jack that is why you are obsessed with Goodman all the time. Step out of it ,you will get nowhere by making things up in your head. The image that you manipulate in your head about Goodman is false and contaminated.. Answer to the discussions not to the image you made of Goodman all the time. And Hell with English, don't be a high school teacher in here. I sometime intentionally misspell some words so others don't become too literal .

Really GB, what the in the world are you talking about? You seem like a very angry and confused person. Worry about the images you have of me and others and don't worry about images other people may or may not have.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Tue, 09 Oct 2018.

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Mon, 08 Oct 2018 #68
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 678 posts in this forum Offline

As far as thinking alike. Christians do think alike so as communists do or Muslims do. But did Einstein think similar to Trump? Absolutely not.

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Mon, 08 Oct 2018 #69
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 288 posts in this forum Offline

Myself Only wrote:
As far as thinking alike. Christians do think alike so as communists do or Muslims do. But did Einstein think similar to Trump? Absolutely not.

Christians, communists and Muslims are in conflict one with another. Religions and ideology are creations of thought. Everyone have his conclusions, his nationality, his believes which are in conflict one with another. And all that is but creation of thought. Thought and the mind, trap in time, breed fear and misery. We are attach to our believes, to our country, to our possessions. We identified ourselves with our believes our country, our possessions, etc. Without selfknowledge, the stream will go on. The world is in an immense disorder.

Is there another way of living ?

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Tue, 09 Oct 2018.

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Tue, 09 Oct 2018 #70
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 678 posts in this forum Offline

Rich Nolet wrote:
Is there another way of living ?

I think that you are jumping way ahead. We need to be very clear about the flaws in our thinking or thought. Because thought is doing all the disorders in the world. I would rather have no cellphone and modern technology and live in a clean environment. Thought is indeed a complicated matter. We can't move away from the issues that thought creates in the world.

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Tue, 09 Oct 2018 #71
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5302 posts in this forum Offline

Myself Only wrote:
As far as thinking alike. Christians do think alike so as communists do or Muslims do.

These are all superficial things, religion, social systems, politics. Below the surface is where all thinking is the same.

One man may be a drunk and another a very religious man. But both men are trying to escape from themselves, from their fears, from their loneliness, from their insecurities and so on. There is no significant difference between an alcoholic, a heroin addict and a person addicted to religion.

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Tue, 09 Oct 2018 #72
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 678 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Myself Only wrote:

As far as thinking alike. Christians do think alike so as communists do or Muslims do.

These are all superficial things, religion, social systems, politics. Below the surface is where all thinking is the same.

Thought is superficial. There is no deeper thought.

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Tue, 09 Oct 2018 #73
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5302 posts in this forum Offline

Myself Only wrote:
Thought is superficial. There is no deeper thought.

You make up too many rules. Of course there is shallow and deep thinking. I'm talking every day use of thought. For example, you can think about what you're going to have for breakfast or you can think about what K pointed out. And before you make up another rule about thinking one of the Krishnamurti books is entitled: THINK ON THESE THINGS.

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Tue, 09 Oct 2018 #74
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 678 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Thought is superficial. There is no deeper thought.

You make up too many rules.

Rules.:-)
As I said all of your thought or anyone else's thought is superficial and fleeting.

This post was last updated by One Self Tue, 09 Oct 2018.

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Tue, 09 Oct 2018 #75
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 288 posts in this forum Offline

Myself Only wrote:
Thought is indeed a complicated matter. We can't move away from the issues that thought creates in the world.

No. But if one understand thought, which is mechanical, which is conditioned, that the thinker is no different from thought ? If one see that all religions and beleives and nationality are only an illusion of security that thought pursue . That there is no such thing. On the contrary, thought separate , divide. Then maybe we can be an outsider. And we will not contribute to this mess.

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Tue, 09 Oct 2018.

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Tue, 09 Oct 2018 #76
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 678 posts in this forum Offline

Rich Nolet wrote:
Myself Only wrote:

Thought is indeed a complicated matter. We can't move away from the issues that thought creates in the world.

No means what? It is not so!
Thought is not complicated and tricky! The first thing that k says is that thought is mechanical. Then he says it is a chemical process in the Brain. Then he says thought is matter and so .But look at us we still don't know what right thinking is after reading k for forty years. That tells itself how mischievous thought is.

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Tue, 09 Oct 2018 #77
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 678 posts in this forum Offline

Rich Nolet wrote:
Myself Only wrote:

Thought is indeed a complicated matter. We can't move away from the issues that thought creates in the world.

No means what? It is not so!
Thought is not complicated and tricky! The first thing that k says is that thought is mechanical. Then he says it is a chemical process in the Brain. Then he says thought is matter and so .But look at us we still don't know what right thinking is after reading k for forty years. That tells itself how mischievous thought is.

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Tue, 09 Oct 2018 #78
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 288 posts in this forum Offline

No meant : . We can't move away from the issues that thought creates in the world. Though you only adress the no, and not the rest of what I say. It's o.k.

If we haven't understand thought after reading K. for 40 years, then , maybe we should stop and look in ourselves ? If we understand ourselves, then one is an outsider, whom no longer contribute to this mess.

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Tue, 09 Oct 2018.

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Tue, 09 Oct 2018 #79
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5302 posts in this forum Offline

Myself Only wrote:
As I said all of your thought or anyone else's thought is superficial and fleeting.

I know what you said and you are mistaken. The self is one example of an invention of thought. The self is not superficial and fleeting. It is very complicated and tenacious. Who here or any where is without a self. K, apparently, was without the sense of "I". Most of us are stuck with the self. If only thought/self were fleeting but it's not.

Thought has invented the life we lead, the religions, the politics, the greed, envy and all the confusion and problems facing the world today. What part of that seems fleeting and superficial? If you just say thought is superficial and fleeting then you're seeing the ideal of thought that your own thought has invented. You're not seeing thought. You're seeing thought according to your ideal of thought.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Tue, 09 Oct 2018.

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Tue, 09 Oct 2018 #80
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 288 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
The self is one example of an invention of thought. The self is not superficial and fleeting. It is very complicated and tenacious.

That is so true. The self is another creation of thought. K. pointed out how one have to be as tenacious in the observation to uncover the self in all his way to be.

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Tue, 09 Oct 2018 #81
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 678 posts in this forum Offline

But the self is an illusion. There is no deep illusion unless one is on drugs and hallucinates that he talks to God or Jesus . All organized religions are superficial, the cloth,the candles, the rituals are all created by thought which is always superficial. Even God the creation of thought is superficial. The problem starts when a superficial thing as thought tries to explain the deeper.

These discussions have been nothing but superficial. Apparently every conflict that thought creates is superficial and shallow.

This post was last updated by One Self Wed, 10 Oct 2018.

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Wed, 10 Oct 2018 #82
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1314 posts in this forum Offline

Rich Nolet wrote:
That is so true. The self is another creation of thought. K. pointed out how one have to be as tenacious in the observation to uncover the self in all his way to be.

Hi Rich
Just wanted to poke in here for a bit, "tenacious" sounds like a quality that the self would have in its pursuit of money, power, security...but is Attention tenacious? Or is it quiet and simple?

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Wed, 10 Oct 2018 #83
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 288 posts in this forum Offline

Hey Dan . Yes , understood. I was in fact hesitant to use this word regarding observation. Passive observation would be more appropriate, thanks.

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Wed, 10 Oct 2018.

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Wed, 10 Oct 2018 #84
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1314 posts in this forum Offline

Rich Nolet wrote:
Hey Dan . Yes , understood. I was in fact hesitant to use this word in regard to observation. But what I mean is maybe more like passive observation, effectively.

Thanks Rich

For me the fact is that 'I' have nothing to do with 'observation'. When 'I' do, it is an attempt to 'get' something. That action can be seen though for what it is. It seems to me that there is no 'intention' in 'Attention'.

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Wed, 10 Oct 2018 #85
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 288 posts in this forum Offline

Absolutly right. That action can be seen for what it is. So there is no intention to get something.

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Wed, 10 Oct 2018.

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Thu, 11 Oct 2018 #86
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5302 posts in this forum Offline

Myself Only wrote:
But the self is an illusion. There is no deep illusion unless one is on drugs and hallucinates that he talks to God or Jesus .

This is what I mean. You contradict yourself. You have no idea what you're talking about. Obviously you, your center, your ego, you know the thing you called an illusion, make things up. So if the self is an illusion so are the things it makes up. So all your rules, beliefs, conclusions are illusions. You roger that?

Do you have any idea how confused these things you write are?

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Thu, 11 Oct 2018 #87
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 678 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Do you have any idea how confused these things you write are?

What I say SHOULD be confusing to a person like you or I would be wrong. Get a life jack. Stop stenthening your petty ego in this site , you merely shorten your own life this way.

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Thu, 11 Oct 2018 #88
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 678 posts in this forum Offline

This guy is nothing but a nasty person who sends nasty personal message to people who he doesn't know and tries to agitate them to say something that is not allowed in this site and be banned. This is what he is and you all respect him in this site of the great krishnamurti. So you are all responsible for this. (But of course you don't give a shit as usual.).

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Fri, 12 Oct 2018 #89
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 678 posts in this forum Offline

The mischievous phenomenon in Internet discussions is totally a new phenomenon . The person who has mental disorder intentionally distorts and twists something that is very clearly stated and goes off attacking the writer. It is an extremely odd thing. How is one to deal with this new phenomenon?

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Fri, 12 Oct 2018 #90
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 678 posts in this forum Offline

Of coarse most people don't do that except one or two that I see in this forum. But one or two bad apples unfortunately contaminates
the site. .

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