Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Extinction


Displaying posts 31 - 60 of 62 in total
Tue, 25 Sep 2018 #31
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 693 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
I will go to the hospital tomorrow and hand me over to the specialists
who will perform a heart operation
where the probability of success is 95% and the probability of death approaching 0%.

I wish you well tomorrow Wim! We will be thinking about you here.

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Tue, 25 Sep 2018 #32
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5217 posts in this forum Offline

Wim, the best of luck to you. I look forward to your posting on here again soon. Jack

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Tue, 25 Sep 2018 #33
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1281 posts in this forum Offline

Yes Wim, good luck.

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Tue, 25 Sep 2018 #34
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 527 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Why assume this? K said that "the speaker is unimportant" and that you can never really know who he was. He also said not to make him or anyone else into a guru. So why think that he was completely free of conditioning and without personal history?

Yes, that is what k said because any opinion positive or negative that we build about k through our image is false and useless. The opinions create authority not facts. And we can never know the facts about k even though people wrote books about him. In fact K said 'Never listen to anyone talking about someone else .' .

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Tue, 25 Sep 2018 #35
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5217 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
K said 'Never listen to anyone talking about someone else .' .

No, K didn't say that. You said that and dishonestly are attributing it to K. Krishnamurti didn't talk like that. Why don't you understand that you can't come onto a discussion site and attribute quotes to someone without any citation?

It's dishonest and it's unacceptable. Especially on a Krishnamurti forum where honesty is particularly relevant and important. You have to be honest with yourself if you are going to see yourself for who you are. If you lie about what K has said how can you possibly be honest about anything else? How can you be honest with yourself?

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Tue, 25 Sep 2018 #36
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 527 posts in this forum Offline

K: Don't listen to anybody talking about somebody else.
That is exactly what I am going to do. I start with jack .:-).

This post was last updated by Myself Only Tue, 25 Sep 2018.

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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 #37
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 527 posts in this forum Offline

Unfortunately jack has dominated this website. Others are afraid of his aggression except his ever agreeing friends .And unfortunately he is always the first who trashes a new and good discussion that is put forth... As k said wearing out the mind instead of using the mind.

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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 #38
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 527 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
No, K didn't say that. You said that and dishonestly are attributing it to K. Krishnamurti didn't talk like that.

What kind of nonsense is that? 'Krishnamurti didn't talk like that'! Why such obsession?
The main problem with him is jealousy. The best way to not to let him to get into your nerves is to avoid reading his comments period. He keeps quoting you to make you read his fabrications. But that is an old trick.

This post was last updated by Myself Only Wed, 26 Sep 2018.

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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 #39
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5217 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
The main problem with him is jealousy. The best way to not to let him to get into your nerves is to avoid reading his comments period. He keeps quoting you to make you read his fabrications. But that is an old trick.

You see GB you're not texting your high school buddies on here. You're on an adult site which requires a certain sophistication. For example you're expected to use proper grammar and sentence structure. And along with that, and just as important, you are required to use citations for quotes.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Wed, 26 Sep 2018.

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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 #40
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 527 posts in this forum Offline

Jack makes things up in here as if this is his high school English class. He thinks that he is very intellectual but he doesn't understand K at all because he is a mediocre and conformist . K was a revolutionary and only revolutionary mind can understand him . The English teachers only understand grammar and spelling.:-) And nobody is required anything except those that are written in rule page. If they required every body who says 'the thinker is thought' or 'observer is observed' or or 'love is not attachment' and so on to put citations behind them what would happen. It would be silly . k's name would be all over the place.:-)

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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 #41
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 527 posts in this forum Offline

Below is what jack just emailed me in this sight:
" You know I'm not going to load up the Forum responding to a person who basically is an idiot. Your responses don't even make any sense. And GB? You forgot to change the pronouns around from "him" or "he" to "you", you stupid shit, when you pasted a quote to you from someone else about me. John Perkins is my best guess.

Jesus, we have had some real loosers on here in the past but I can't remember anyone as confused or as ignorant as you. Remove your head from you ass."
This is around 2 pm

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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 #42
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 527 posts in this forum Offline

There goes jack again emailing me in this site! at 2:27 pm
"You are such a little cry-baby twat. Men don't run to mommy when something happens. They deal with it themselves. Goodman my ass. You're not even a man yet."

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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 #43
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 527 posts in this forum Offline

There goes jack again emailing me in this site! at 2:27 pm
"You are such a little cry-baby twat. Men don't run to mommy when something happens. They deal with it themselves. Goodman my ass. You're not even a man yet."

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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 #44
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 376 posts in this forum Offline

Krishnamurti, The Whole Movement Of Life Is Learning, Chapter 51:
We do not learn from wars, we repeat wars; and brutality and bestiality continue with their corruption.

-

Hamburg, Germany 3rd Public Talk 9th September 1956

Question: If we transform ourselves and become peaceful, while others do not transform themselves but remain aggressive and brutal, are we not inviting them to attack and violate us as helpless victims?

Krishnamurti: I wonder if this question is put seriously? Have you tried to transform yourself, to be really peaceful, and see what happens? Without actually being peaceful, we say to ourselves "If I am peaceful, another may attack me; and so we set up the whole mechanism of attack and defence.

But surely, sirs, we are concerned, are we not?, with the transformation of the individual, irrespective of what is done to him. We are not thinking in terms of nations, of groups, of races. So long as society exists as it is now, there must be attack and defence, because the whole structure of our thinking is based on that.

-

Krishnamurti, Talks and Dialogues, Saanan, 1967,2nd Public Dialogue - 3rd August 1967

We are violent human beings. To say, 'you have not changed, why haven't you?' is a form of violence. That's the communist way, which is to brainwash people to their particular ideology. We are not doing that here; it doesn't mean a thing to me to convince you of anything. It's your life, not my life; the way you live is your affair. And if you want to live with great happiness, great bliss, with a great sense of ecstasy, we'll walk together, we'll communicate with each other. If you don't, you don't, and what am I to do? Human beings are violent and is it possible for that violence to be totally eradicated? That is the only question we are concerned with...

This post was last updated by idiot ? Wed, 26 Sep 2018.

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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 #45
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 376 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
I refer you to the books...

Of course, I have read K books you are recommending and lots more. You apparently assume that I have not read them since you have reached a conclusion from them and I have not.

Whether you express out loud personal attacks and criticisms of people or whether you suppress them and the animosity creeps subtly into your responses, the same violence harms both you and those with whom you are in contact.

We have the wonderful opportunity to jointly investigate K but if we cannot meet in a friendly way, how will this occur?

Personally, I really take seriously K's recommendation to approach relationship anew, without preconception about how another will react or behave. You and I need not be who we were in the past. We can create right now an entirely new relationship. Or we can fall into mechanical reaction. This applies to everyone here, doesn't it?

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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 #46
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5217 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Of course, I have read K books you are recommending and lots more. You apparently assume that I have not read them since you have reached a conclusion from them and I have not.

I didn't reach any conclusion but rather referred you to the books in case you hadn't read them. It's just that K and Bohm do such a thorough job of explaining conditioning. Both physical and psychological conditioning. I thought Dan's short explanation was pretty clear and to the point. What did you think of it? Did it help clear anything up for you?

idiot ? wrote:
Personally, I really take seriously K's recommendation to approach relationship anew, without preconception about how another will react or behave. You and I need not be who we were in the past. We can create right now an entirely new relationship. Or we can fall into mechanical reaction. This applies to everyone here, doesn't it?

OK. Do you have any suggestions you would like to make? Or how would you like to proceed? It sounds like for this to work each person has to drop their image of not only themselves but of the other person as well. Not a small task.

I believe my image of you began with your posting comments about what others had said about K and who he was or about what you considered K's "superstitions" instead of what K had pointed out during his life. His discoveries you might say. I'm interested in that but not at all interested in what others thought of K. I have my own views of K based on attending public and private talks by him and seeing him just living his life between talks at what used to be referred to as the Pine Cottage in Ojai. It's now called the Library or something or other. Just through the orange grove back of Arya Vihara which is now the "Pepper Tree Retreat". A fairly expensive B&B.

I lived there, Arya Vihara, for awhile back in the 1978-79. I worked as a carpenter on the Oak Grove School that was built in the summer and fall of 1978. And I was in a relationship with a woman who was hired, along with others, that summer to teach at the school. At that time the teachers and their significant others usually lived at Arya Vihara.

It was an interesting, a fascinating time. Electric with the potential of the new school in Ojai. I met David Bohm there too. He would often give his own talk, after K spoke, to whoever was interested. Bohm's talks took place in the soccer field adjacent to the Oak Grove where K spoke.

K would come back to The Ojai in February from India I think. He would rest up for a few months before the usual spring gathering. Often he would give private talks in his large living room at Pine Cottage to the parents and staff during that time. It was magic to be there with the rains and everything turning green and blossoming. The smell of orange blossoms and jasmine filling the rain freshened air.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Thu, 27 Sep 2018.

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Thu, 27 Sep 2018 #47
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5217 posts in this forum Offline

Are you speaking of David?

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Thu, 27 Sep 2018.

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Thu, 27 Sep 2018 #48
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 376 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
I lived there, Arya Vihara, for awhile back in the 1978-79...

Thank you for sharing about some of your direct experiences with K and others in Ojai. That's very interesting.

I have been there a few times since K died. I only saw him once in person when he spoke at the Oak Grove School some time in the early 80s. I was just in the audience. The person who went with me was amused when I repeatedly insisted, "Krishnamurti is the most significant philosopher of our time." (Later the Dalai Lama said pretty much the same thing and was quoted on the cover of some K book.)

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Thu, 27 Sep 2018 #49
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5217 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
And Krishnamurti did ask "Why is Moody still here?" during all the backstage politics that went on at the school at that time.

Yeah, I was vaguely aware of the intrigue surrounding Moody and Moody and Lee and Erna and so forth. Never really cared about it one way or the other.

I have a question for you that I will send to you in a private message.

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Thu, 27 Sep 2018 #50
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5217 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
I have been there a few times since K died. I only saw him once in person when he spoke at the Oak Grove School some time in the early 80s. I was just in the audience.

I'm glad for you that you had the opportunity to see K in person. I don't think there is anything quit like hearing/seeing him in person. Especially in what use to be such a magnificent setting. But the Oak Grove has changed considerably, as Nature tends to do, since the talks were held there with K. The last time was in 1985.

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Thu, 27 Sep 2018 #51
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 527 posts in this forum Offline

I have talked to k when he was in ojai in 1979. He was a fun guy to talk to . The only difference is that when you saw him in person or got to talk to him and ask him a question his answer was not merely verbal or intellectual. He had a mysterious space around him. But then again memory is a dead thing and needs to be wiped out.

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Thu, 27 Sep 2018 #52
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 527 posts in this forum Offline

Krishnamurti Quote of the Day
Ojai, California | 6th Public Talk 18th June, 1944

Question: Don't you think that there is in man a principle of destruction, independent of his will to destroy and of his desire at the same time for life? Life in itself seems to be a process of destruction.

Krishnamurti: In all of us there is the dormant will to destroy like anger, ill will, which extended leads to world catastrophes; and also within us there is the desire to be thoughtful and compassionate. So there is at work within us this dual process, a seemingly endless conflict. The questioner wants to know if life itself does not seem to be a destructive process. Yes, it is, if we understand it to mean that in negation is the highest comprehension. This negation is the destruction of those values that are based on the positive, on the me and the mine. As long as life is self-becoming, enclosed by the thought-feeling of me and mine, it becomes a destructive process, cruel and uncreative. The positive, assertive becoming is ultimately death dealing, which is so obviously manifest in the world at the present time. Life pursued positively as the me and the mine is conflicting and destructive. When this positive, aggressive wanting or not wanting is put an end to, there is the awareness of fear, of death, of nothingness. But if thought can go above and beyond this fear then there is ultimate reality.

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Fri, 28 Sep 2018 #53
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5217 posts in this forum Offline

So GB you say you saw K in 1979? Well, let's suppose you were 21 years old at that time. That would make you 59 or 60 now. So why all the talk in the recent past about "old minds" and "old people". You know how you kept saying how Wim and I were too old to understand K.

There seems to be a contradiction here. Are you relatively young as you implied in previous posts or are you actually in the neighborhood of 60 years old?

I have gathered a few of your quotes about old people, there are more, but this is enough. They are posted below.

Quotes from Goodman B below about age taken from this forum:

Goodman B

United States

449 posts in this forum

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Goodman B wrote:

Wim Opdam wrote:

You proved yourself right once again !
Goodman B wrote:

Sir ,you are an old man,try to act as one. Don't answer for others. That is rudeness..

*Yes, spending too much time with the elders wears the mind out and makes it old.:-)
Let's say that you don't understand a thing .

K is only good and effective on the young minds. you are way too late to learn anything new from k or anyone else. Seriously, k is not for the elders at all. You can repeat like a tape player

But the problem is that young minds don't have time to answer in here . They are too busy experiencing life instead of talking about it. But we are the opposite. It is not the age that makes the mind old . It is what k explains that makes the mind old.

You will never find God at sixty, for at that age most people are worn out, finished." Krishnamurti

I picked that up from ken's profile. I have no doubt that K said that. And we see the proof all the time.*

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Sat, 29 Sep 2018.

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Fri, 28 Sep 2018 #54
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1186 posts in this forum Offline

Hi Sean, Jack and Dan,

Thank you for the good wishes.

I'm back home again and well, according to the prof. who operated me it was successful and I'm grateful for his knowledge and his
skillfuly team. In about a month I've to do an exercise test to get conformation of his conclusion.

my heart has started to beat faster, not trough excitement, infatuation or anger, but through the intervention purely based on thought!

a metaphor for a moment of thinking also seems to me.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Fri, 28 Sep 2018 #55
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 527 posts in this forum Offline

I am not here to advocate myself. Those quotes are in response to the nonsenses that was posted by you and wim about me. Having an old mind is not about age . It is about being brain washed and having rigid conclusions. You may be 20 years old but carrying an old and worn out mind. If you want to go back I can paste your other emails to me in here and discuss why you send private messages to people you don't know. But those kind of rubbish doesn't interest any one including me. So move on. You can't convince me of anything.

This post was last updated by Myself Only Fri, 28 Sep 2018.

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Fri, 28 Sep 2018 #56
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5217 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
Having an old mind is not about age

Then why is chronological mentioned? For example among your quotes were these that specifically inferred chronological age:

K is only good and effective on the young minds. you are way too late to learn anything new from k or anyone else. Seriously, k is not for the elders at all. You can repeat like a tape player

*Yes, spending too much time with the elders wears the mind out and makes it old.:-)
Let's say that you don't understand a thing .

And then Donald, what about that meeting K in 1979? That was a lie too wasn't it? Or are you around 60 years old? What about that Donald? I'm calling you Donald after our esteemed leader who is a pathological liar.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Fri, 28 Sep 2018.

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Fri, 28 Sep 2018 #57
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5217 posts in this forum Offline

Wim, I am very glad to see you posting here again. Also that your operation was a success as expected. Take care of yourself and join us when you can.

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Fri, 28 Sep 2018 #58
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5217 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
You can't convince me of anything.

Oh yes I know. No one can. Your mind is almost completely closed. That's why you are who you are. So how old are you? It seems to make a difference to you judging by how many insulting posts you have put on here about people older than yourself.

Did you think no one was going to do the math when you made your claim to have seen K in 1979?

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Fri, 28 Sep 2018.

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Fri, 28 Sep 2018 #59
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 527 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Goodman B wrote:

You can't convince me of anything.

Oh yes I know. No one can. Your mind is almost completely closed.

Then why do you keep trying!? Some kind of insanity?

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Fri, 28 Sep 2018 #60
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5217 posts in this forum Offline

So what about that claim of seeing K in 1979? You know the numbers don't add up unless you are around 60 or more. And if you are that age why did you disparage Wim and myself about the age you assume we are in your many post about old age?

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