Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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the constant discernment of what is true


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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 #1
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1186 posts in this forum Online

QOTD Sep 18, 2018

>Eddington, Pennsylvania | 2nd Public Talk 14th June, 1936

>Question: What is your idea of meditation?

>Krishnamurti: What is called meditation, as practised by most people, is concentration on an idea and self-control. This concentration helps to develop a strong memory of some principle that guides and controls everyday thought and conduct. This conformity to a principle, to an ideal, is but an escape from actuality, the lack of discernment of the adequate cause of suffering. The man who seeks reality through renunciation, through meditation, through any system, is caught in the process of acquisition, and that which can be acquired is not true.

>Meditation is not a withdrawal from life. It is not concentration. Meditation is the constant discernment of what is true in the actions, reactions and provocations of life.
To discern the true cause of struggle, cruelty and misery, is true meditation. This needs alertness, deep awareness. In this awareness, in the course of deep discernment of right values, there comes the comprehension of reality, bliss.

And what could we have learned in recent days?

How do we deal with false accusations, provocations
and should that always lead to abuse or just leave it to let it die a natural death ??

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Fri, 21 Sep 2018.

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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 #2
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5216 posts in this forum Offline

Wim, we have someone on here who is obviously growing more and more irrational. The guy writes things and then accuses others of writing them. All someone has to do is look on the thread in question and see who, in fact, wrote what.

This person has, apparently, taken a cue from the President of the US who, himself, is a pathological liar. It gets to the point where you wonder if the person even knows what the truth is. How do you deal with someone like this? I don't think you can deal with them. A person has to have a certain level of rationality before there can be any meaningful communication.

Also this same person has fabricated quotes from Krishnamurti which are obvious frauds and doesn't seem to be aware of how dishonest this is. If you met a person like this in public all you could do is walk away from them or in extreme cases turn them in to the proper authorities before they hurt themselves or someone else.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Tue, 18 Sep 2018.

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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 #3
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1186 posts in this forum Online

Jack Pine wrote:
Wim, we have someone on here who is obviously growing more and more irrational. The guy writes things and then accuses others of writing them. All someone has to do is look on the thread in question and see who, in fact, wrote what.

Jack, indeed we have, but this forum is a kind of microcosmos for the whole world,
so there will always be people more or less like him and whatever we do they will not change fundamentally !

The only thing what can be done is to see through the this facade of truthfulness, the manipulations
and the dishonesty, the disrespectfulness et., etc. and if possible to point to what is going on
and leaf your or his self out of that respons.

is that not what K; pointed to ?
Is it not the same situation as two opposites thoughts fighting eachother.?
So not we or he is important in such situations but how we act with the situation is.

If a person tels a lie do not fall in the trap of calling him a fiction-monger or such or so,
but point him to the facts and nothing more !

and of course that will be contradicted, but that is his self-defense,
and no one other than himself will be able to escape or get out of it.

Let him cook in his own mess and do not go waste energy so he can suck and twist further,
let him produce his own energy and not parasitize that of others.

to me, this is much like K. handled with the Rajagopals !
Not that you or I must copy his behaviour but understand from which source he acted !

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 #4
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 523 posts in this forum Online

Jack Pine wrote:
Also this same person has fabricated quotes from Krishnamurti which are obvious frauds.

Obviously you are fake because you can't even show what he quoted which is fraud in your closed mind.

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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 #5
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 523 posts in this forum Online

Wim Opdam wrote:
Jack, indeed we have,

Elders, realize that you are ribbing and mobbing which are against the rules of this website. Read and understand the rules before you get booted out and be more hurt than what you are . You two old boys must have been responsible for people who got banned from this site unjustly. You mobbed and irritated them as it has been all that you have been doing here.

This post was last updated by Myself Only Tue, 18 Sep 2018.

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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 #6
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5216 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
Obviously you are fake because you can't even show what he quoted which is fraud in your closed mind.

Which ones? Every single quote you attributed to K that didn't have a citation. Especially the one about homosexuals. And your use of the word "fake" is interesting. Did you learn that word from your hero Donny the buffoon? That's one he likes to use against the press that relentlessly exposes his lies and generally crooked, unethical and depraved behavior.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Tue, 18 Sep 2018.

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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 #7
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5216 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
Read and understand the rules before you get booted out and be more hurt than what you are .

You read and understand the rules. Especially the one covering too frequent posting and saturating the forum with posts.

5. Balance. In the interest of not having the forum dominated by particular points of view, be conscious of the number and size of posts you make in forum in any given day or week.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Tue, 18 Sep 2018.

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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 #8
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 523 posts in this forum Online

You should tell that to your buddy Wim. He is the one who opens a blog left and right! And stop justifying homosexuality which is created by thought and is sick. Krishnamurti didn't condemn homosexuals . He said they create problems for the world which is true. But you having a local mind never understand that.
And the topic of this discussion is meditation. But what you and Wim do is trolling which is to divert from facts.

This post was last updated by Myself Only Tue, 18 Sep 2018.

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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 #9
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1186 posts in this forum Online

Goodman B wrote:
He is the one who opens a blog left and right!

That's another lie, I open topics on this forum and don't know how to handle or open a blog, but I know how to lock a topic !

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Wed, 19 Sep 2018 #10
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1186 posts in this forum Online

Goodman B wrote:
And the topic of this discussion is meditation.

apparently you are not aware of the difference between meditation and addicted to contradiction

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Thu, 20 Sep 2018 #11
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1186 posts in this forum Online

More information to take into account: QOTD SEPT 20 2018

Madras, India. | Public Talk 22nd October, 1947

"As I am going to talk every Sunday for many Sundays, I think it will be best if I very carefully and slowly develop the ideas which I have. I shall try to make my points as clear as possible during this and subsequent talks every Sunday at 5 p.m.

Most of us are used to listening to talks, and I hope you will not reduce these talks to the level of mere talks to which you attend and which are of no consequence afterwards in your daily life, because I feel that at the present time the world is in such chaos, in such a mess in such an extraordinary catastrophic strain that it requires a new outlook, a revolutionary way of thinking about the problems that surround us every day.
So it seems to me that it is very important that we, every one of us should understand the catastrophe that is around us. 
Verbally we are aware that there is a catastrophe. 

We read about it in the newspapers, in the magazines."

And sadly but true one can observe this verbally on this forum

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Thu, 20 Sep 2018.

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Thu, 20 Sep 2018 #12
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5216 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
That's another lie, I open topics on this forum and don't know how to handle or open a blog, but I know how to lock a topic !

Actually if you take the time to count up the number of topics both you and GB have started they are the same. But, of course, GB doesn't see facts. Most of what he writes is based on misconception and other error.

Wim, you have suggested to me a couple of times on this forum that it would probably be best not to engage with GB and I agree. A couple of people have sent messages to me suggesting that GB has some mental problems and probably it would be best to not engage with him. One long time member of this forum, one of the main posters here, recently sent me a message pointing out that GB is probably getting help from John Perkins.

For those who have forgotten who John Perkins is let me remind you. He is a deeply disturbed miscreant who use to be a moderator with his own forum until Dev was forced to not only relieve him of his position but to remove him from the forum all together for deviant, rude and generally psychotic behavior. John, for some reason I don't understand, is still allowed to send messages to members here and to recommend posts. That's the biggest reason GB gets recommendations for his mostly ridiculous posts. Also, John is famous for sending completely obscene diatribes full of four letter words to several of us who still post on this forum.

This person, for years, has occupied himself with seething hatred while monitoring a forum he can't post on. I think the frustration has driven him quite mad.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Thu, 20 Sep 2018.

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Thu, 20 Sep 2018 #13
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1281 posts in this forum Offline

Jack's post has put me in mind of something: It is, that we are all the 'same'. The same in having this psychological structure we are calling the 'self'. The structure, as has been suggested, is a 'protective' mechanism and we all as humans have inherited this sense of 'individuality', the'I- process', (the 'me' and the 'mine') etc. And we vary greatly in the 'content', abilities, and expressions of this self. From the 'angel' to the 'devil', from most eloquent thinker to the 'mad as a hatter'. Society chooses among the various manifestations of 'self' and rewards some, punishes some, shuns some and idolizes some...but it is all the same at its core, a 'protective wall'. Interpersonal relations are relations between these 'walls'. And that is where we are at. But if any of that (simple minded?) description is accurate, then what are we when and if the 'wall' disappears (as it will in physical death?) Emptiness? Nothing? Nothing to defend? Nothing to hold on to? Nothing to prove? Nothing to gain or achieve...I think the admonition against 'judging' arises here. One can assess the actions of another as being irrational, destructive, thoughtful, cruel, kindly, etc. with a degree of accuracy but also there needs to be kept in mind, this 'sameness' we all share in 'being', this divisive 'entity' called the 'self'.

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Thu, 20 Sep 2018 #14
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1186 posts in this forum Online

Jack Pine wrote:
Wim, you have suggested to me a couple of times on this forum that it would probably be best not to engage with GB and I agree.

Hi Jack,
Yes I've done that and in the past I thought that was a solution but now seeing that that is not accepting what - however sad - he is.

I wrote in #3

Wim Opdam wrote:
The only thing what can be done is to see through the this facade of truthfulness, the manipulations and the dishonesty, the disrespectfulness et., etc. and if possible to point to what is going on
and leaf your or his self out of that respons.

and that is something else, that is only responds on the message and not the messenger.
That is only giving your view at the content of the matter.

Dan wrote in #13 rightly:

Dan McDermott wrote:
One can assess the actions of another as being irrational, destructive, thoughtful, cruel, kindly, etc. with a degree of accuracy but also there needs to be kept in mind,
this 'sameness' we all share in 'being', this divisive 'entity' called the 'self'.

the splitting, dividing entity on both sides is the 'self' one can't influence his self but can negate ones own self by being accurate and honest in the reply about the content of the reply and not the person behind it, because that we can't know accuratly if this person is sickly, very angry or handy sickening the forum by throwing back everything that is thrown at him.

that's "the constant discernment of what is true".

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Thu, 20 Sep 2018.

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Fri, 21 Sep 2018 #15
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 523 posts in this forum Online

Man, this guy jack is really hurt. He thinks that with his childish writings he can hurt others. K has a word for that 'ill will'. It is a surprise that he has not been booted out of this site for gossiping and fabricating falsehood about some members . But then again who cares, he is a no minder.

This post was last updated by Myself Only Fri, 21 Sep 2018.

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Fri, 21 Sep 2018 #16
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5216 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
But then again who cares, he is a no minder.

Apparently you do or you wouldn't have written the post this quote is from. And "ill will" is not a term that is associated with what K pointed out. It's a common place, somewhat hackneyed phrase.

For example: Most would call it "ill will" to belittle people who have been labeled "homosexual" or "old" people in general as you have done. It's called bigotry when you separate yourself from others whom you then ridicule and despise.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Fri, 21 Sep 2018.

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Fri, 21 Sep 2018 #17
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1186 posts in this forum Online

Goodman B wrote:
But then again who cares, he is a no minder.

luckily you do in a certain way not belong to a majority, on the other hand in contributing to the mess in the world you are.

and those who are seriously interested in what K. pointed to can't find any seriousness in your behaviour , only contradiction and that is as the QOTD "IS WHAT IT IS"

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Fri, 21 Sep 2018.

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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 #18
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 523 posts in this forum Online

Jack Pine wrote:
A couple of people have sent messages to me suggesting that GB has some mental problems and probably it would be best to not engage with him. One long time member of this forum, one of the main posters here, recently sent me a message pointing out that GB is probably getting help from John Perkins.

Jack ,Is this place for these kind of discussions. Fabricating leis ? Is this place sacred place as Dan says? No, because you have contaminated it with these kind of attacks which is authority-based. It is best to look at your own behavior than to make fabrications and lies in this so called "sacred" place.

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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 #19
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1186 posts in this forum Online

Goodman B wrote:
Jack ,Is this place for these kind of discussions. Fabricating leis ?

Goodman, Is this place for these kind of discussions or another attempt to provoke Jack into personal discussions, you one day earlier wrote:

Goodman B wrote:
Man, this guy jack is really hurt.
He thinks that with his childish writings he can hurt others

First I thought it was cinical but it seems now you are really hurt,
are you in need of a doctor ?

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Sat, 22 Sep 2018.

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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 #20
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 523 posts in this forum Online

Answering for someone else shows lack of intelligence.

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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 #21
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1186 posts in this forum Online

Goodman B wrote:
Answering for someone else shows lack of intelligence.

Not answering for someone else at all, but being serious about the way this forum is wrongly used as well as concerned about you're really being hurt or not.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 #22
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 523 posts in this forum Online

Wim Opdam wrote:
concerned about you're really being hurt or not.

Try not to use the word "you" in the forums. That word provokes people.
(But then again conflict gives a sense of being to some. Some People want to argue for ever and wear their minds down.).

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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 #23
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1186 posts in this forum Online

Goodman B wrote:
Some People want to argue for ever and wear their minds down.).

That's true, but where is an argue found in this ??

Wim Opdam wrote:
Not answering for someone else at all,
but being serious about the way this forum is wrongly used
as well as concerned about you're really being hurt or not.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Sat, 22 Sep 2018.

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