Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
General Discussion | moderated by Dev Singh

algorithms


Displaying all 9 posts
Page 1 of 1
Thu, 09 Aug 2018 #1
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1182 posts in this forum Offline

learned today that the price we pay for services is based on algorithms
from which the validity is never tested.
Judges who based their verdicts are also based on algorithms, the price you paid for insurance, the interest for your loan or for your mortgage, etc., etc.

So not only do we live in a information buble but our cost of live is defined by algorithms who are not tested on their validity.

Do you see the similarity with how thought is influencing our behavior and yes I know that this is all the outcome of thought.

this is showing the rightness of the QOTD:
>"Knowledge is never complete, can never be complete."
>Krishnamurti Quote of the Day | Aug 09, 2018

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Thu, 09 Aug 2018.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Thu, 09 Aug 2018 #2
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 361 posts in this forum Offline

An algorithm is a procedure used to make a calculation. So, yes, any numerical calculation, whether done by a human or a computer, is done with an algorithm.

We don't need to be afraid of the word, "algorithm." Algorithms are not inherently bad.

But they do involve steps that may reflect values that we may or may not agree with. It is the details of the procedure that can make all the difference. Transparency helps us know what the steps in the calculation are. Without that, we cannot begin to evaluate the fairness or correctness.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Thu, 09 Aug 2018 #3
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1182 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
An algorithm is a procedure used to make a calculation. So, yes, any numerical calculation, whether done by a human or a computer, is done with an algorithm.

There is no need to explain what algorithm is, that's already in my knowledgebase.

idiot ? wrote:
We don't need to be afraid of the word, "algorithm." Algorithms are not inherently bad.

Neither is there need to be afraid of any word or the things they pointed to.

idiot ? wrote:
But they do involve steps that may reflect values that we may or may not agree with. It is the details of the procedure that can make all the difference. Transparency helps us know what the steps in the calculation are. Without that, we cannot begin to evaluate the fairness or correctness.

This is also true, but not the major point of the issue, don't you see the allegory with how we handling our thoughts ??

We are too lazy or don't see the need to inquire their validity, there values on which it is founded, the purpose of them, is it escape or
relativizing the facts ?

We accept them as belonging to live while in fact they are a disturbing factor just because they Can't be complete.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

Sign in to recommend  This post has been recommended by 1 reader
Back to Top
Thu, 09 Aug 2018 #4
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1196 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
We accept them as belonging to live while in fact they are a disturbing factor just because they Can't be complete.

You mean many divisions society is plagued with? Professional, religious, class, national, etc? Which are all based on thought made values?

Sign in to recommend  This post has been recommended by 2 readers
Back to Top
Fri, 10 Aug 2018 #5
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1182 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
You mean many divisions society is plagued with? Professional, religious, class, national, etc? Which are all based on thought made values?

you are right in the observation but that was not what was meant. it is the similarity of the handling of thought (inner world) and the handling of algorithms (outer world).

the absence of transparency and/or validity check and the inherent incompleteness

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Fri, 10 Aug 2018 #6
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3122 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
We accept them as belonging to live while in fact they are a disturbing factor just because they Can't be complete.

I know you meant 'life' rather than 'live', Wim, but very valid point. The whole psychological makeup is based on these algorithms...is that what you're pointing to? And that they are responsible for human suffering? Would you go so far as to say that?

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Fri, 10 Aug 2018.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Fri, 10 Aug 2018 #7
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1182 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
I know you meant 'life' rather than 'live'

Hi Tom,

In my language (dutch) both are translated as the same, so I've no feeling for the distinction of those two words, maybe you would explain it to me ;)

Tom Paine wrote:
The whole psychological makeup is based on these algorithms...is that what you're pointing to? And that they are responsible for human suffering? Would you go so far as to say that?

Not quit, lately something new is going on, and seeing similarities between totally different events, so at a certain level they are incomparable but on a deeper level they have similarities to a certain extent, as well as between thoughts and the algorithms hidden in computers.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Sat, 11 Aug 2018 #8
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1196 posts in this forum Offline

Just checked up this word algorithm Wim. You are talking about conditioning, is It? Conditioning makes the values. And according to these values we try strive & do things. Even insurance, what we pay eta, is according to these values.

These values however are not absolute,they are thought made.Tgerefore relative. Is that what you are saying?

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Sat, 11 Aug 2018 #9
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1182 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Just checked up this word algorithm Wim. You are talking about conditioning, is It? Conditioning makes the values. And according to these values we try strive & do things. Even insurance, what we pay eta, is according to these values.

These values however are not absolute,they are thought made.Tgerefore relative. Is that what you are saying?

One could indeed say that algorithms are born out of thought and as such have the same character/genes as thought, and also we are too much depending on the rightness of them, the hidden ways they are influencing our way of living, their incompleteness, their relative value is treated as true, which they aren't.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Displaying all 9 posts
Page 1 of 1
To quote a portion of this post in your reply, first select the text and then click this "Quote" link.

(N.B. Be sure to insert an empty line between the quoted text and your reply.)