Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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How many people understand Krishnamurti?

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Wed, 15 Aug 2018 #91
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5400 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
Look at the way you think. As I said selfishness is the basis of your thinking. You are conditioned to think like that from childhood. No one including krishnamurti can possibly save you from your thinking. I do feel sorry for you dude. I seriously do.

You are obviously very young and very foolish. You write a string of words without substance in an ineffective attempt to discredit others who point out your vacuous statements. Obviously I'm not the only one.

And "dude" Krishnamurti can't help anyone. He was very clear on that point. You have to see for yourself. Perhaps if you believed that you understand K less and try to understand yourself and your often rabid responses more .......?

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Wed, 15 Aug 2018 #92
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 887 posts in this forum Offline

The problem with self-centered thinking is that it is not effective, it doesn't work . Condemnation and justification are no thinking. And all you do is that. Society is rotten and it has to change. What prevents change in the society is respectability of the self. We essentially worship the self which is evil. This has to change. I don't know how but one can step out of the rotten and corrupt society. Even though society tries to drag one into it and creates an image(which is what you do). I have no respect for evil thoughts which is based on respectability and image making. (Now go on and continue with condemnation and justification and get nowhere again.). And krishnamurti helps those who help themselves and step out of the selfishness stream. Krishnamurti doesn't help the ego-driven people who merely condemn or justify what they hear. The self or the ego is evil and a rational man doesn't play with it. He just abandons it. Call this preaching which is another self defence to avoid truth.

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Wed, 15 Aug 2018 #93
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 123 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B: Your question does not make sense or is a wrong question all together.

I am selfish. Are you? It is a very simple question. Let’s look at what it means to be selfish without condemning and justifying. This is your suggestion.

I am a selfish human being. If you say, 'I am not,' then it's finished; and we can't discuss it. I am selfish. I start here. I don't want to make a problem out of it.

This post was last updated by Paul Dimmock Wed, 15 Aug 2018.

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Wed, 15 Aug 2018 #94
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 887 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimock wrote:
am a selfish human being. If you say, 'I am not,' then it's finished; and we can't discuss it. I am selfish. I start here. I don't want to make a problem out of it.

Continue, what is selfishness? Having an image about oneself and others, isn't it? That image is false. And when one's thinking revolves around falsehood is that thinking . Thinking has to start with facts or it is not valid.

This post was last updated by One Self Wed, 15 Aug 2018.

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Wed, 15 Aug 2018 #95
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5400 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
Thinking has to start with facts or it is not valid.

Good lord you are confused. Your above statement is complete non-sense. Thinking is going on all the time and there is no condition that it can only happen when there are facts.

For my own part I really don't care what you believe or don't believe but you are on a K forum where someone might take what you write for something relating to what K pointed out. Someone with very little or no experience or understanding of K may not realize that you are not speaking about what K pointed out.

There should be some sense of responsibility when you write things on this forum. Just because you say something or think something doesn't make it a fact. That's the mistake the malignant narcissist Donald Trump makes. Continuously.

Paul Dimrock is asking you a legitimate question. Why not begin by answering it and then discuss it?

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Wed, 15 Aug 2018 #96
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 887 posts in this forum Offline

Jack, you don't know how to think . That is why you jump on others, I feel sorry for you.

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Wed, 15 Aug 2018 #97
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 887 posts in this forum Offline

Krishnamurti: To go back, positive thinking is no thinking at all; it is merely a modified continuity of what has been thought. The outward shape of it may change from time to time, depending on compulsions and pressures, but the core of positive thinking is always tradition. positive thinking is the process of conformity and the mind that conforms can never be in a state of discovery.
Commentary on living.

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Thu, 16 Aug 2018 #98
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5400 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
Jack, you don't know how to think . That is why you jump on others, I feel sorry for you.

We've had several people on this forum who thought they knew it all. Who thought they were the only ones who actually knew what K was pointing out. It didn't end well for them. They were either asked to leave the forum or just left of their own accord because no one would engage with them.

No one wants or needs your pity. It's obvious you have no idea what K was pointing out and you are embarrassing yourself with your foolish statements and your actions.

Now please, continue to forge ahead to your own self created demise. It is somewhat entertaining at times.

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Thu, 16 Aug 2018 #99
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 887 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Good lord you are confused. Your above statement is complete non-sense. Thinking is going on all the time and there is no condition that it can only happen when there are facts.

Rubbish , read what krishnamurti said about thinking that I posted above. One wonders if you read the comments. I post it again. Do you have disability to understand?

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Thu, 16 Aug 2018 #100
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 887 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
Krishnamurti: To go back, positive thinking is no thinking at all; it is merely a modified continuity of what has been thought. The outward shape of it may change from time to time, depending on compulsions and pressures, but the core of positive thinking is always tradition. positive thinking is the process of conformity and the mind that conforms can never be in a state of discovery.
Commentary on living.

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Thu, 16 Aug 2018 #101
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 887 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
They were either asked to leave the forum or just left of their own accord because no one would engage with them.

And they lived happily ever after.:-)

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Thu, 16 Aug 2018 #102
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
You write a string of words without substance in an ineffective attempt to discredit others

GB, I find the above statement by Mr.Jack to be accurate.

You just say things about people which appear to be totally incorrect to me.

Please show your replies to Mr.Jack & me to a good friend. Find out whether your statements not not reactions.They are reactions from a hurt ego.

Mr.Jack's posts have always been factual.I cannot see any selfishness in his posts.I don't know what you are talking about.This is not good.

You see a human being is not a fixed entity. So all you got to do is to look at what is happening. You are refusing to look.When the brain actually sees something it has its own action. So what is needed is critically looking,seeing.

Look for this also- you have formulated a theory reading K & responding through that theory. This comes out in your posts. This is nothing to be ashamed about.It happens to most of us at some point or other. Only we must go beyond that.All you got to do is to be aware of what is happening.

We are not born perfect. That is why we read K. That is why we must look at our actions,why we must question our actions.

If we refuse to look at us critically ,change which is why we read K,becomes impossible.

This is not to hurt you or embarrass you. Someone must tell you this.That is what Mr.Jack & I tried.

I might not comment on your posts again but look at what we pointed out to you please.

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Thu, 16 Aug 2018 #103
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 887 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj and jack ,you both seem to me be conformists. And this is what k says " positive thinking is the process of conformity and the mind that conforms can never be in a state of discovery."
That is why you don't learn and discover anything. You are not here to learn are you not? I think that your thinking is wrong not mine ,think about it. You think about an imaginary person who is hurt. How wrong can that be? Jack threatens me that he will do something that no one respond to me . How scary! The great philosophers won't respond to me as if they did respond correctly at anytime. Respectability is a curse in this site.

This post was last updated by One Self Thu, 16 Aug 2018.

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Thu, 16 Aug 2018 #104
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Good Lord Goodman , you are dogmatic to the fingertips.

No,Mr.Jack never threatened you. In fact you threatened me once.

Bye- I will not comment on your posts any further.

May you have the foresight to critically examine yourself. Bye.

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Thu, 16 Aug 2018 #105
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 123 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B: Continue, what is selfishness? ... Thinking has to start with facts or it is not valid.

No, I am not talking about selfishness. That is an abstraction away from the fact that I am selfish. I am greedy; I am self-centred. Aren't you? So I am starting from a fact. I may resist it; I may want to deny it; but it is a simple enough fact to start from. It is a fact about myself; so I am starting very close.

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Thu, 16 Aug 2018 #106
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 749 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimock wrote:
You are perfectly correct. All of this comes into it. I think you have touched on the key issue when you say that we understand something of the teachings and come here in the possibility that we might understand some more. So it is a mind that wants more. First of all, it is a greedy mind. Would you accept this? It is greedy for more power, more security, more respect and all the rest of it, in the form of more understanding. It is asking a lot to accept all this.

I think your statement throws up some interesting questions - Is the person who wants to understand more always greedy? Is he or she always looking for more power and all the rest of it?

Personally, I have been lucky enough to live in some different countries and I have learnt a few languages and met many other people who have also done so. Millions of people are trying to learn and understand more English at the present time. Why do they do this? To get more power, respect and security? Well, that may be the case for many people. Learning English might help you advance in your career, get a better job and more money. However, I've met many people who simply love the way the language sounds with all the richness of regional accents. They have a passion for English and are eager to learn complex grammar rules, the meanings of idioms and how intonation communicates many different things. Is wanting to understand more always motivted by self-centred activity? Can it not also be motivated by a genuine love and passion for the subject?

Paul Dimock wrote:
You see, I asked a different question, sir. I asked, ‘Why are you here?’ What’s your response to this question? Do you take it personally and get affronted?

I'm here because I'm interested in Krishnamurti's teachings. Sometimes we have discussions here where I end up perhaps understanding a little more about these teachings. I'm certainly not affronted by you asking this.

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Thu, 16 Aug 2018 #107
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1273 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
I think that your thinking is wrong not mine ,think about it. You think about an imaginary person who is hurt. How wrong can that be? Jack threatens me that he will do something that no one respond to me .

i don't know if you're really who you say you are, but your name reminds me of a great musician who stays in tune with his fellow musicians, at least while they were playing their music.

so who is out of tune here?

the one who says " i think you think" is he thinking right or wrong ?
and what others all or nor are thinking or are capable of is completely out of order, what is of great importance is what and how and why one is thinking as one does and that is a fact!

Goodman B wrote:
Jayaraj and jack ,you both seem to me be conformists. And this is what k says " positive thinking is the process of conformity and the mind that conforms can never be in a state of discovery."

So why you are conforming your idea of others behind the words of another ?

Goodman B wrote:
Respectability is a curse in this site.

What hinders you to be respectable ?

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 #108
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 887 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimock wrote:
I am greedy; I am self-centred. Aren't you?

It is understood that we are self-centered. We don't need to keep repeating that. What is your solution? How do you break through selfishness. And what is self-centered-ness to you? To me it is a person who is always concerned with someone's self . He doesn't care what he says. We can see or experience that in this and other blogs.

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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 #109
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 887 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
So why you are conforming your idea of others behind the words of another ?

Sorry I don't understand your question. Clarify.

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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 #110
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1273 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:

Wim Opdam wrote:

So why you are conforming your idea of others behind the words of another ?

Sorry I don't understand your question. Clarify.

how sincere is your statement: 'sorry', why do you not investigate your ignorance, what does an answer mean, does not that lead to or conformism or contradiction?

is it not a sign of disrespect to order me to clarify instead of: 'please clarify'?

why do you apologize for your own state of ignorance ?

yes, I know a lot of questions that you only have to answer for yourself, deep within you lie the answers and for that you have to be honest and not play a game neither with yourself nor with others.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 #111
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 123 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B: It is understood that we are self-centred. We don't need to keep repeating that. What is your solution? How do you break through selfishness? And what is self-centredness to you? To me it is a person who is always concerned with someone's self. He doesn't care what he says. We can see or experience that in this and other blogs.

I am self-centred. I say that. Something then happens. But you are still not happy to say it except in general terms. But the whole story of selfishness is you.

This post was last updated by Paul Dimmock Mon, 20 Aug 2018.

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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 #112
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 887 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimock wrote:
I am self-centred. I say that.

Try to use your mind . Stop repeating the same phrase and let's move.

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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 #113
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 887 posts in this forum Offline

All of you guys have the wrong attitude . You want to prove the other guy wrong. That never works. It Is the old school and it doesn't work at all. So try to find what is the right attitude first and then write your useless personal attacks.

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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 #114
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1273 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
All of you guys have the wrong attitude .

Does this include your own attitude ?

Goodman B wrote:
You want to prove the other guy wrong. That never works.
It Is the old school and it doesn't work at all.

That's right, by your statement, you want us to proof wrong.

Goodman B wrote:
So try to find what is the right attitude first and then write your useless personal attacks.

With a right attitude one couln't write 'useless' personal attacks.

there is no sense of being addressed, at most that the answers in #108 and #111 are completely misunderstood.

So it seems there is work for you to do.!

Have a nice 'working' day.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Mon, 20 Aug 2018.

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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 #115
Thumb_stringio Huguette . Canada 490 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
It is understood that we are self-centered. We don't need to keep repeating that. What is your solution? How do you break through selfishness. And what is self-centered-ness to you? To me it is a person who is always concerned with someone's self . He doesn't care what he says. We can see or experience that in this and other blogs.

Goodman B wrote:
Stop repeating the same phrase and let's move.

Goodman B wrote:
You want to prove the other guy wrong. That never works. It Is the old school and it doesn't work at all.

On this point, I see it as you do, B, but…… you’re doing the same thing as everyone else. Aren’t you? Rich and poor, sophisticated and unsophisticated, I think we all do this because this is our human conditioning.

I think that this is one of the opportunities that participating here provides: seeing “myself” in “the others”; by seeing "the other" clearly, by understanding him, I have an insight into myself as well. I see the commonality. After all, the psychological processes in all of us are the same, aren’t they? We say over and over, “I am the world, the world is me” and yet, in the moment of reaction, we don’t face it, we don’t move with it.

When I get angry, insulted, afraid of looking foolish, stupid, weak, and so on - I don’t face it, I don’t move with it. I put explanations on it, I retaliate, and so I don’t move with my fear. I stay with the old attitudes, security. My fear goes one way. I ignore it and I stay on the same spot of tradition and time. That is fragmentation or selfishness in action, isn’t it? Is this incorrect?

This post was last updated by Huguette . Mon, 20 Aug 2018.

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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 #116
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 123 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B: Try to use your mind. Stop repeating the same phrase and let's move.

Then answer the question. Are you a selfish human being like me? If you say, 'Yes,' then we have something to look at together. But if you say, 'No,' it means you are only raising this issue to prove a point, which is all rather childish. I am selfish. I stick there. Anyone else who wants to join me, join me. Then we can look at something real about ourselves, not all these silly abstractions.

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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 #117
Thumb_stringio Huguette . Canada 490 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimmock wrote:
Anyone else who wants to join me, join me. Then we can look at something real about ourselves

As K pointed out and as can be seen, there’s no path, no method, no formulation, no conclusion, no idea, no authority, etc, that can guarantee the desired outcome - the outcome of self-understanding, for example. Merely agreeing to say, “yes, I’m selfish” does not mean that “the thing” is actually seen.

What is it that is seen when I see that I am selfish? Can I see that I’m selfish without seeing the underlying fear? Or is fear not the underlying factor?

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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 #118
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 477 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimmock wrote:
I am selfish. I stick there.

No kidding.

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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 #119
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 477 posts in this forum Offline

Let's reduce K to a simplistic formula and pretend we understand something:

I see my selfishness, how I'm always wanting good things for myself and avoiding bad things. I see how my thinking is always centered on myself.

Then I see that the selfishness is not separate from me. The observer is the observed. I'm not a separate observer looking at my selfishness. I am the selfishness AND the one who observes it.

Okay, I am selfishness. Therefore I can do nothing. Full stop.

Just staying with. Being present. Observing.

Transformation is!

Now having reduced K to a formula, have we learned anything? Of course, not. We're still selfish and cruel. We still personally attack here in the forum. And likely eleswhere, either mentally or actually. We haven't really learned anything.

We've assimilated a formula. Maybe not exactly the one above but some such formula. And we have fooled ourselves into thinking that we are transformed. But in fact, the violence and cruelty go on. And conflict is the proof. We are not free of conflict but remain in conflict. Therefore we haven't really learned anything at all.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 20 Aug 2018.

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Mon, 20 Aug 2018 #120
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 123 posts in this forum Offline

Huguette: Merely agreeing to say, “Yes, I’m selfish” does not mean that the thing is actually seen.

Of course not. But what is the thing if it is not in you as it is in me? That's the only point. You cannot approach selfishness as an abstract or an intellectual problem. The core of it is inside us all. We cannot just brush it aside. And, if it is just a lot of mere words, what’s wrong with saying it?

This post was last updated by Paul Dimmock Mon, 20 Aug 2018.

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