Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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interesting relationship


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Wed, 20 Jun 2018 #1
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 379 posts in this forum Offline

"He loathed argument, criticism or questioning of any sort; once the facts of the matter had been stated (usually by him) he thought any discussion, let alone argument, completely unnecessary and positively disruptive. He described it as both a waste of time and a 'dissipation of energy.'"

Who is the "He" in the above quote?

Not Krishnamurti. It is C.W. Leadbetter. This is a quote from page 8 of Gregory Tillet's book, The Elder Brother: A Biography of Charles Webster Leadbetter. I've read the beginning of this book from the sneak peak at amazon. Unfortunately it's pretty expensive so I don't know if I'll get it.

Of course, unlike Leadbetter, K welcomed questioning for the most part. Although perhaps he did expect you would eventually come around to agreeing with what he was saying if you "went into it for yourself."

I believe somewhere in one of Leadbetter's books that he recommended you test things out for yourself. I wish I could find such a reference. It really would be astounding if "investigate for yourself" came originally from K's teacher, in the spirit of scientific inquiry into essentially pseudo-scientific phenomena like clairvoyance, chakras, astra travel, etc.

Regarding the description of Leadbetter, K too would sometimes certainly say, "It is a fact, is it not?" And he certainly expressed concern for "dissipation of energy" sometimes.

To me it is fascinating to see certain K teachings sourced in one degree or another from his teacher, C.W. Leadbetter.

But a lot of people don't want to accept this. They want K to be a mutation that came out of nowhere. Or they think the teaching and living it is important alone. Side matters such as how some supposed pedophile taught K are irrelevant.

But to me they are not. "The truth is not exclusion." To me K's training with Leadbetter is interesting. Did he revolt and throw off this background? Yes and no.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Wed, 20 Jun 2018.

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Wed, 20 Jun 2018 #2
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1206 posts in this forum Offline

Do you say insight is the result of thought?

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Thu, 21 Jun 2018 #3
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5231 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
It really would be astounding if "investigate for yourself" came originally from K's teacher, in the spirit of scientific inquiry into essentially pseudo-scientific phenomena like clairvoyance, chakras, astra travel, etc.

I read Mary Lutyen's K biographies when they first came out in the 1970's. I have probably read them again over that past 40 years two or three times at least. And not once did I ever get the impression, let alone read, that Leadbeater instructed K in "spiritual matters". He did instruct K and Nitya on how to wash their bodies properly, dress and otherwise learn how to deport themselves in an "acceptable" Western fashion.

It has been stated by K on several occasions that he wondered if he were some kind of mutant in that conditioning, whatever it may have been, just wouldn't "stick" to him. This caused him a great deal of difficulty in school, the lower grades in India, where he was often beaten by the teacher and kept after school for not learning his lessons. His brother Nitya would lead him home otherwise K might have stayed at school all night.

K had many teachers and none of them were instructing him on spiritual matters but rather on the ordinary subjects we all learned in school. They tried desperately to get K up to speed to pass the necessary tests to get into a school in England.

I don't know if you were doing this but it sounded like it, please don't start the rumor that Leadbeater had anything whatsoever to do with K's later understanding of life and of the many things he talked about for 60 years or so. There just isn't any factual basis for making this claim.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Thu, 21 Jun 2018.

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Sun, 24 Jun 2018 #4
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 695 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
I believe somewhere in one of Leadbetter's books that he recommended you test things out for yourself. I wish I could find such a reference. It really would be astounding if "investigate for yourself" came originally from K's teacher

Hello idiot? and all. I understand that you use the word "astounding" becuase this would cast doubt on Krishnamurti being completely free of conditioning. Am I correct in assuming this? I suppose we are all influenced by each other to a certain extent. If K did actually hear Leadbeater using this expression then perhaps K simply liked it and thought it expressive. Maybe that's why K started using it. Sometimes we may hear or read a word or expression that we like and begin to use it ourselves. Our pronunciation is influenced by the people we hear speaking around us when we are children and we no doubt pick up expressions from people close to us who have an influence upon us.

Was K free of conditioning? The way that he speaks certainly suggests he was a total outsider. I wonder how on earth could he have observed with such acuteness both the inward and the outward if he was tied down by conditioning?

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