Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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What is silence? Is it static or it changes it's qualities all the time?


Displaying posts 31 - 60 of 102 in total
Tue, 27 Mar 2018 #31
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Correct.But when is thought not needed? In the psychological arena? When it builds images,right? If yes, why does then thought build images?

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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 #32
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Correct.But when is thought not needed? In the psychological arena? When it builds images,right? If yes, why does then thought build images?

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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 #33
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

Once that is realized seriously, does thought make useless images any more?

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Thu, 29 Mar 2018 #34
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1067 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
Once that is realized seriously, does thought make useless images any more?

why do we say thought is counter productive? What is the basis of thought? Is there a cause to psychological thought? Is there one cause?

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Thu, 29 Mar 2018 #35
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1067 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
And this ability has been carried over into the psychological because it provides a kind of stability or permanence that would not be there without recorded images experienced in the 'past'.

But does it provide security?

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Thu, 29 Mar 2018 #36
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

Now the question is that we who have been involved with these things (because of k's teachings) for years why are we not free from image maker which is thought? We are hurt human beings.

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Fri, 30 Mar 2018 #37
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1067 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
Now the question is that we who have been involved with these things (because of k's teachings) for years why are we not free from image maker which is thought? We are hurt human beings.

You say thought is the image maker. Why does thought make images. We say for security. But why is it false? I mean in relationship here.

Why are we hurt? Both the questions are related though.

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Fri, 30 Mar 2018 #38
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

what is it that is hurt? is it the brain or it is thought thinking in term of comparison ? Surely thought is hurt not the physical brain.

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Sat, 31 Mar 2018 #39
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1067 posts in this forum Offline

No, it cannot be the brain. I've heard that brain itself has no sensations. I hope I have right information.

Any how it cannot be the brain surely. It is in the heart area we feel pain.

So thought comparing is hurt. But why does thought compare?

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Sat, 31 Mar 2018 #40
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

Why do people compare? Because it is a habit. Because they are conditioned to compete . there are many reasons why people compare .But what is important is not to compare . comparison is mediocrity ( Psychologically speaking).

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Sat, 31 Mar 2018 #41
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

we said that it is thought that is hurt or gets hurt or hurts . the brain doesn't hurt or get hurt. that much is clear, but how thought the image maker creates pain? ..through comparison. comparing oneself with someone else or comparing oneself with when was younger and stronger or healthier and so on. .why thought does this comparison at all is the question . is it because thought seeks power, I don't know. . why does thought do this?

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Sun, 01 Apr 2018 #42
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1067 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
Because it is a habit. Because they are conditioned to compete .

Yes it has become a habit. Yes, man is conditioned to compete.

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Sun, 01 Apr 2018 #43
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1067 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
.why thought does this comparison at all is the question . is it because thought seeks power, I don't know. . why does thought do this?

Yes, that's the question I want to get at.

Is it because intrinsically thought is separate? In itself. So because in itself it creates the delusion of separation , 'you', 'me' & another & another & so on it compares?

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Sun, 01 Apr 2018 #44
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

If one is concerned with understanding thought ,not negate thought or accept thought but concerned with the understanding of thought, how it comes into being how it operates and how it fades away. Then what is one to do?

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Mon, 02 Apr 2018 #45
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1067 posts in this forum Offline

That's the point. How is one to proceed. Not analyse. We have said that. Analyzing is with the available knowledge & we have said that is limited.

So can we watch thought in operation? Is that not what is needed. Not offer opinions, say this, that, but simply observe? Now are we clear about this observation without any interference whatsoever?

Is this observation clear to us? Are we clear that 'what is' is no more there if 'will' operates at all?

Before we get to the root of thought we have to clear all this, isn't it?

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Tue, 03 Apr 2018 #46
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

I think that the idea of self as a centre that directs things is a modern one. People were much more selfless about fifty years ago in the sixties. We are confronted with a modern problem of the self which is made by thought. We see how destructive the self is in the politics. Our problem is to be free from the self or thought or image maker which breeds fear is it not?

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Wed, 04 Apr 2018 #47
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1067 posts in this forum Offline

Is it really a modern day problem? In the ancient days tribes fought against tribes. So seeking security in a group was there. Is that still not the beginning of separation?

Yes, self is the issue. So what is the resolution? Obviously we have to find out how it operates. We say it is put together by thought.

Now 'self' is separate existence, is it not? Is this a fact? how can we have insight into that? Must we not observe thought in operation to find out?

Are we clear about in which manner to look at ourselves? What is getting at the root cause of thought?

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Wed, 04 Apr 2018 #48
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

The fact of the matter is that thought or the self seperates. Thought separates life into the past and the present and the future. Thought divides everything as "me" and "none me" . Thought divides . Now we question that . Is there security in division? Can duality solve any problem?

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Fri, 06 Apr 2018 #49
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1067 posts in this forum Offline

Well, obviously there is no security in division. Because division. Because division means another or a group that is not one with you. So encroachment by who is not 'you' becomes possible.So essentially there is no security.

So duality means conflict. Obviously.

Now is duality a fact? I mean is it a truth? I know man believes in that. How do we find that out?

We say thought is intrinsically divisive. Now can we have insight into the origin of thought? The original questioned I raised is that? In which manner is that possible?

Let us begin again. We said we have to observe thought for that. Then we observe throughout the day , right? We said we merely observe without passing judgement, without analyzing.

Now will this observation throw insight into the origin of thought? Is that not what is needed? Can we stick to that & proceed?

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Sat, 07 Apr 2018 #50
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

Thought has to work efficiently in the daily life. This efficiency is not possible when there is duality as the doer and the doing or the thinker and his thought. Our problem is not thought but it is the duality that thought creates. Is it not fear/pleasure thing that sustains the duality. Duality is a distortion in the human mind. A distortion that is imposed by parents and education and propaganda and religions. One has to shed all dualities to be able to see for oneself ..no?

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Mon, 09 Apr 2018 #51
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1067 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
This efficiency is not possible when there is duality as the doer and the doing or the thinker and his thought. Our problem is not thought but it is the duality that thought creates.

Yes. In day today functions thought is needed. Nobody doubts that.The problem is thought in the psychological area. Now as you said duality is thought & the thinker etc. Also as 'me' & 'you' or 'another'.

Now this is a distortion. But why do we say it is a distortion?

We can argue, put forward logic etc.That we all have fear, all experience loneliness, all want security, all get attached etc., etc., & say we are fundamentally not different from another. But with this logical assertion do we really see the point, truth of the matter? Is it really seeing?

I think we have to observe thought in day today life for this. And then be swift enough to watch a thought as it arises. As a thought arises. Actually see it in it's formation. I feel unless we come to that point in observation & make the discovery by each one of us, all assertions are merely intellectual, not insight, will not be a truth affecting our lives.

How do you see this please?

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Mon, 09 Apr 2018 #52
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

Okay , we are not here to show off who is more clever or more intelligent. We are sharing our main problem . Our main problem as we agreed upon is duality.
The word dual means two, not one.Oneness means no duality. Plus duality means a gap, a space between the observer and the observed. Does it not?

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Tue, 10 Apr 2018 #53
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1067 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
duality means a gap, a space between the observer and the observed. Does it not?

Yes.

Is duality a truth? That is we say 'I am Muslim' & another 'I am Buddhist'. Now is this a fact, a truth? Or simply 'I' & 'You'.

Now the question is how do we find out? We argue, put forward logic, reasoning etc., that both a Buddhist & a Muslim means conditioning. Both are attached to some concepts.They have made concepts out of some truths & are attached to those. So both are identical. But my question is, is this in our blood? Is it a truth to us as clear as that fire burns? I don't think so.

So we have to observe ourselves in action. Now after one thought there is a gap. Then another begins. Now I feel we have to pay attention here to find out how a thought begins.

Is that not right? What do we see here? Actually that the observer is the observed. That is, the image I build of you now is put together by me. That is you are me!-although I think, have been thinking so far, that you are a different entity. How can I be different when there are 8 or 9 billion people in the world & they are still mushrooming-but that is only logic.

So is that not needed? Observing a thought as it arises to find out the one cause of thought which is separation? Is there any other way?

{You know I learned from an erudite pali scholar that the great Buddha said the same thing as K saying it is 'elayana maggo'(one & only way)!} There are no diverse ways in this. Then it is a system.

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Tue, 10 Apr 2018 #54
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4981 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
What is silence? Is it static or it changes it's qualities all the time?

Do you have an image of silence based on your conditioning and on reading what K has said about "silence"? Is silence a "thing" to be discussed intellectually and endlessly? Can there be silence and thought at the same time or is the former the absence of thought; an attentiveness without judgement or definition?

Are you aware that all discussion, thinking takes place within our general conditioning? Might it not be more important to be aware of the prison of our conditioning expressed by our thought than it is to understand some of the furnishings within that prison?

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Tue, 10 Apr 2018 #55
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

Do you have an image of silence based on your conditioning and on reading what K has said about "silence"? Is silence a "thing" to be discussed intellectually and endlessly?

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Tue, 10 Apr 2018 #56
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

You can't imagine silence because it has no shape . But we can surely discuss it as we have been doing.

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Tue, 10 Apr 2018 #57
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

Is duality a truth? That is we say 'I am Muslim' & another 'I am Buddhist'. Now is this a fact, a truth? Or simply 'I' & 'You'.
Duality exists only in the mind. Nature has no duality. Thought is the creator of duality or conflict.

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Tue, 10 Apr 2018 #58
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

Is duality a truth? That is we say 'I am Muslim' & another 'I am Buddhist'. Now is this a fact, a truth? Or simply 'I' & 'You'.
Duality exists only in the mind. Nature has no duality. Thought is the creator of duality or conflict.

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Tue, 10 Apr 2018 #59
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

Is duality a truth? That is we say 'I am Muslim' & another 'I am Buddhist'. Now is this a fact, a truth? Or simply 'I' & 'You'.
Duality exists only in the mind. Nature has no duality. Thought is the creator of duality or conflict.

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Tue, 10 Apr 2018 #60
Thumb_screenshot_2014-08-09-12-40-46 Goodman B United States 70 posts in this forum Offline

Is duality a truth? That is we say 'I am Muslim' & another 'I am Buddhist'. Now is this a fact, a truth? Or simply 'I' & 'You'.
Duality exists only in the mind. Nature has no duality. Thought is the creator of duality or conflict.

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