Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Was Buddha's sathipattana meditation originally same as what K taught?


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Thu, 22 Mar 2018 #31
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
So is not both, the 'ego' & 'will' ,thought in movement?

Ok, so if we see that thought and will are essentially the same phenomenon, why do we look at them and discuss them as if they were two separate things?

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Thu, 22 Mar 2018 #32
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
But wait, is there deep abiding interest which is not the outcome of the will?

Is there? Many people here and elsewhere speculate that there is such a thing. Also, there is much speculation about words like "Silence" and "Intelligence" or "Love", but we have already suggested that such endeavor, generally speaking, can be a waste of time.

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Fri, 23 Mar 2018 #33
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Ok, so if we see that thought and will are essentially the same phenomenon, why do we look at them and discuss them as if they were two separate things?

Wait, thought is the ability to draw up on memory, evaluate, compare & so on.Communicate. Now this has a valid function in life. In manipulating, negotiating, the material world to enable living-we all know that.

Then thought is also building images in relationship. Now is this needed? Is it valid? Is that not causing confusion? When thought in movement as will pursue an object is this intelligence?-because are things fixed for this?

Basically is then thought there functioning in a sphere it is ineffective? Is not thought as will one such function?

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Fri, 23 Mar 2018 #34
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Is there? Many people here and elsewhere speculate that there is such a thing.

Wait, if we have a wound naturally there is a need to cure it, is there not? Is that need functioning of the will or is it a normal healthy need, response?

Now there is suffering. We see we are in conflict? There is the need to resolve it? Is this need & proceeding to find out about suffering, then the action of the will? Or is it a normal healthy response to pain?

I am just raising the question to probe here. Am not saying at all I am correct there.

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Fri, 23 Mar 2018 #35
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Daniel Paul. wrote:
so the need at some stage to actually "see" and know the program, something thought cannot do seems to be the case..in what I know it seems that such "seeing" comes in due time..there seem to be, maybe , some sort of ..."something unknown" which works at this level..beyond thought 's control ..a sort of guidance which or who knows what is good for us...I say us as of course potentially we all have that ..

You are quite right. Seeing the program is what is needed & thought cannot do it. That's the whole issue.

Well is not the other factor 'awareness'? Is it really guidance or hawk like awareness with thought having ceased it's search seeing it's futility in this regard?

An interesting question here would be what is thought's relation to awareness.(I've been trying to write on this point lately). Is there any relation at all?

Dan, this is not to say higher life forms are not there. That becomes another question. However do you not think we have to do our job ourselves when it comes to our predicament psychologically?

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Fri, 23 Mar 2018 #36
Thumb_stringio Daniel Paul. Ireland 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Seeing the program is what is needed & thought cannot do it. That's the whole issue.

Good morning, well it is morning sunrise for me here in Ireland..

Well , the thing is , before I did "see" anything in this matter, well of course I was not aware that it was important..all what I may bring here as some personal experiment, always relates to what is called suffering-sorrow etc...but I have to found some other ways to mention that, as one word does not really say , of course dukkha is more appropriate but such word needs to have studied its complex meaning ..."permanent discontentment" suits me for now instead of suffering yet some pain is always there as well of course...it is like for the word "fear", when I realised that it actually means nothing to most people so I prefer to say "running away" from..etc

the will-desire of thought cannot do it, especially because it is a running away as usual an attempt to replace facts with "my" desires, yes we agree on that, and generally speaking what can thought actually do for real when it is not about practical aspects of life , probably( surely?) nothing good, probably( surely?) make anything worse than it already is..

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Well is not the other factor 'awareness'? Is it really guidance or hawk like awareness with thought having ceased it's search seeing it's futility in this regard?

For some reasons, usually the word awareness does not speak much to me.Yet I understand what you bring here, it is clear.

We have the knowledge of thought as a program and so how it globally and broadly functions , through vision, insights , revelation and something we will call here awareness....yes I have found and find that somehow thought have to cease it's search...in my case it always had been and is related to this permanent discontentment and the way I deal with that.

I am discontent since early childhood , then of course I had-have to find ways with it..

well it seems to be a guidance, well it is a guidance, or at least it appears that way, but to cut the crap here for me it is a guidance by something x which knows the ways..

something entirely unknown , undefined etc knows what the ways are and it is the ways of a sort of proper functioning of everything says a logic looking at the facts available and properly used ..I am conscious of what this implies of course and at the same time those two take place at the very same time, hawk like awareness with thought have ceased ,then the guidance takes it over..

this is what is very hard to be rightly put in words without talking bullshit or nonsense...

in time of deep sorrow for me and for my own children and partners so when doing something rightly was needed, it was actually possible for me-us to go into that sorrow , I was sort of guiding, in a sort of shamanic way so in a way which has no calculation and no method as such, yet one aspect of it which needs to be tackled so lived was perfectly seen as I had gone through it already, which is where thought does not want to go ever, to deal with this heavy discontentment without running away from it..

then I is discontent..end of the story ...when usually I thinks that it is not discontent but that there is some discontentment it could act on somehow, thinking it is separate from that.

so it tries hard to apply the same method to sorrow that it applies to building a roof..the observer is observing the observed, I is observing sorrow as if it was not itself..it never works with discontentment and the all shebang ..

k has summarised this by: what is and what should be, and the observer is the observed..but this is not enough..not that he has not done a remarkable work here on the contrary...but no one can eat for another..

the analytical human program today and since millennium is the dictator of our brain-mind like it tries to do in the outer...it is a permanent conflict and war at all levels mental and practical with a stop when all is destroyed ....this is suicide...of course suicide is too a running away from a too heavy discontentment ..

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
An interesting question here would be what is thought's relation to awareness.(I've been trying to write on this point lately). Is there any relation at all?

Oh my god you are only asking questions for a lifetime !! ;-)...of course..

I think that first we do speak about awareness at the same level here...it is what is not of thought..yet thought can be touched by it ..we make it simple on purpose.

thought has its sort of personal knowing, made up by its program ,the memory, the analysing of it, the experiences, the desires, the personal tastes , the running away, etc..I see that thought is its own referent...so it can be always right..especially if it can cheat and distort any fact theoretically so intellectually since it does not have to be necessarily true...

the awareness we speak of so the guidance affects thought...I know it as a lived fact..but this is not good enough of course for another..even if this is true. The fact for one is not necessarily a fact for another..unless it had been lived too.

thought is relatively Independent in its dependant ways and isolated in its own ivory tower...it looks at itself only , using anything which is for its own sake...this is where we are..

this awareness we speak of is in a state of pure contentment and it brings instant understanding of any sort..it is not like being in a shop here, I do not choose ..

this awareness cannot be missed as such, there is no place for doubt when it takes place in ones's life ( whether it is for a second or more)..it just is there..it is beyond thought, yet somehow thought is part of it to some limits as a remote spectator up to not being there consciously ,but for once being only a spectator so not being an analyser without willing to be so, the awareness totally tames thought..for me all words like extraordinary, exceptional , incredible, fantastic, subliminal and all those sort of 's creation do not fit here..during this awareness is there as it wishes up to when it leaves and after...all seem to have been without any surprise at all...yet it is of course noticed as remarkable, unusual ...and so on.

so there seem to be a relation, a close one...to make it short..thought is a tool and needs to be used by ....something which is not thought...but it has the capacity to use itself as well, this must be so out of many reasons because otherwise as a toddler-child when the brain-mind is not yet entirely developed, thought and its incentive which is desire would not work so there would not be any will-desire to live...etc

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Dan, this is not to say higher life forms are not there. That becomes another question. However do you not think we have to do our job ourselves when it comes to our predicament psychologically?

Yes, for me it is a fact...this is what I know..and to be discontent is here to help..

well thanks for all this very interesting exchange...I must go now, my home work on kinfonet have been done..cheerio..

PS: no time to re read..so there will be some glitches here and there of course..

Dan ...........

This post was last updated by Daniel Paul. (account deleted) Fri, 23 Mar 2018.

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Sat, 24 Mar 2018 #37
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Daniel Paul. wrote:
well it seems to be a guidance, well it is a guidance, or at least it appears that way, but to cut the crap here for me it is a guidance by something x which knows the ways..

something entirely unknown , undefined etc knows what the ways are and it is the ways of a sort of proper functioning of everything says a logic looking at the facts available and properly used ..I am conscious of what this implies of course and at the same time those two take place at the very same time, hawk like awareness with thought have ceased ,then the guidance takes it over..

Good morning Dan(it morning here now..)

Well K was there pointing out. But he never called himself a guide. Nevertheless he talked. It was seeing with the use of his description which is actually our very nature.

But you are talking of something unknown. This is a bit unclear for me. There may be greater beings-there are, I am absolutely certain- but is there guidance? Can they make us see? As you say another cannot eat for ourselves. What then is this guidance?

I personally think we have to dig ourselves to see. However what you call guidance may be there but I feel the action might be stopping digression etc.For example say we have embarked on a journey. Miles & miles we walk. And the city we are walking to is close by. We are unaware of the fact that the city is close by & feel very tired thinking that we have walked a long distance , that this is not possible & begin to take a side road digressing. Those greater beings can see that the city is close for us & that we are digressing disheartened & they can block this digression. But they cannot make us walk.

I feel this is there. They can make us meet a person etc. But I feel we have to do our job fully. Nobody can do the job for us.And will not dependence on an outside agency for seeing weaken us? Do we wait then thinking we must get that? Can a suffering person wait? He has to act. Belief will debilitate him.If some help is forthcoming unknown to us let that be. I feel we cannot think about that. Appealing is escape, not looking.So we cannot depend on anything.A father can tell his son/daughter 'read this book, that book, for your exam'. But he cannot make us read,cannot read for us, cannot do the exam for us.Is that right?

I want to read the part about thought & its relation to awareness again. Your English appear to be a form I am unaccustomed to. Nevertheless I like to read it.

Thank you too.

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Sat, 24 Mar 2018 #38
Thumb_stringio Daniel Paul. Ireland 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
So we cannot depend on anything

Hello ....

well the entire post needs one to go into it seriously, I find it more than deeply interesting, but today I do not have this time and seriousness to give to it, I am out by a nice day riding on a motorbike through the lovely Irish landscape ..so I will come back to all of it probably tomorrow...if not another day in the week..but thank you for your input it, it raises so many interesting questions..

about the language my first language is French and this explain why you find it somehow "different" as it is a pigeon English ..

enjoy your day...

Dan ...........

This post was last updated by Daniel Paul. (account deleted) Sat, 24 Mar 2018.

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Sat, 24 Mar 2018 #39
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Basically is then thought there functioning in a sphere it is ineffective? Is not thought as will one such function?

Thought as will/ego/self/I etc., yes. A clear undistorted perception of where thought functions effectively and has utility to the biological organism and where thought manifests as will/ego/self/I is all that is necessary (step 1) and no other explanation is required, would you say?

This post was last updated by richard head (account deleted) Sat, 24 Mar 2018.

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Sat, 24 Mar 2018 #40
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Or is it a normal healthy response to pain?

You seem to be comparing apples to oranges, I would suggest. K would say that one can conceive of a beautiful garden and then bring it to fruition (pun intended). But can thought conceive of a better/happier state of mind and then bring it to actuality?

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Sat, 24 Mar 2018 #41
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
I am just raising the question to probe here

The question then becomes, do we see in a clear unbiased manner, where thought is useful and where it causes psychological "issues"? Or do we simply imagine a happier clearer state of seeing?

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Sun, 25 Mar 2018 #42
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
A clear undistorted perception of where thought functions effectively and has utility to the biological organism and where thought manifests as will/ego/self/I is all that is necessary (step 1) and no other explanation is required, would you say?

Yes, of course. That is what is required.

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Sun, 25 Mar 2018 #43
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
You seem to be comparing apples to oranges, I would suggest.

Haha...nice one....

richard head wrote:
But can thought conceive of a better/happier state of mind and then bring it to actuality?

No, that is the way of anxiety, sorrow etc.

I am not talking of pursuit of a goal by thought.

Would you say sensation is normal, healthy? You would of course.

Now hunger is a sensation. Then is search for food the action of the will? Cannot there be planning for this without thought overriding the action?

(am I still juggling with oranges & apples?)

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Sun, 25 Mar 2018 #44
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Or do we simply imagine a happier clearer state of seeing?

No, that is flight away from facts. So very denial of resolution.

You see K planned & had meetings to end human suffering & bring happiness to man.

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Sun, 25 Mar 2018 #45
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Daniel Paul. wrote:
a nice day riding on a motorbike through the lovely Irish landscape

Hello Dan,

I wish you have a nice time.

When you write again please look at this too.

You have said thought & awareness have a close relation. You also said however thought is reduced to a spectator. (sorry haven't read it again. Got to go)

Now I make this relation between awareness & thought akin to light & darkness. Presence of one denoting the absence of the other.

Now if we say in awareness thought is active then have we said that thought cannot resolve this issue of suffering? We both say that thought cannot. Does awareness become a different tool if thought is associated, involved?

(I must read carefully what you meant in your post. I haven't understood it clearly)

It has been interesting chatting.Thanks.

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Sun, 25 Mar 2018 #46
Thumb_stringio Daniel Paul. Ireland 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Hello, yes I had a very nice time, thanks.

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
When you write again please look at this too.

Hello again, yes I did read that too.

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Well K was there pointing out. But he never called himself a guide. Nevertheless he talked. It was seeing with the use of his description which is actually our very nature.

first of all for me the language is mainly for a use in practical matters,no doubt what a chair is etc, there it is in its field of predilection. When I-we use it elsewhere like we do here, it becomes much more vague , even when one looks at it using a very good dictionary with the root origin of the word etc ..

Yes k talked a lot indeed and on very specific topics, not the ordinary ones as we all know.

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
But you are talking of something unknown. This is a bit unclear for me. There may be greater beings-there are, I am absolutely certain- but is there guidance? Can they make us see? As you say another cannot eat for ourselves. What then is this guidance?

I do not know about greater beings yet some experiences I had are not contradicting this assertion, it could had happened that I had an encounter of that kind in a telepathic experience, not caused by me at all but by ??

Is there a guidance ? well good question, at least there is some sort of deep real concern, this I know . For example when this telepathic conversation took place, I was told that I could not make it happen by myself so I was warned by this unknown person not even to try it.....there is a specificity in what I know about telepathic that I found mentioned nowhere...I just met one person who had the exact same experience about this specificity when he was in a deep coma...in books or anywhere so far I did not find about this specificity I usually do not mention on purpose,a specificity which is remarkable and impossible to imagine, a specificity which widen so much the field of the unknown and questioning...the more one "digs", the more it comes out it seems...

I have many unanswered questions about that like : where was she ?? I have no clue.. how did she triggered this in me ? I have no clue etc...

what then is this guidance ? well I say that you cannot count on that at all..then we agree on that point I think..I need to put that differently to make clear what I mean..as long as there is thought( the analytical process) leading the brain-mind what may appear as a guidance by is it really a guidance, what may appear as such will never be there anyway..and when thought is not leading as a dictator such guidance acts as it wishes anyway, so by no means have we any influence of all that...

basically whether thoughts leads whether it does not..and it is only when it does not that "weird moments" impossible to predict and search for take place as they wishes..you say that in your own way that I understand with no problem

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Now I make this relation between awareness & thought akin to light & darkness. Presence of one denoting the absence of the other.

I add : there can be only one leading ...

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
>I personally think we have to dig ourselves to see. However what you call guidance may be there but I feel the action might be stopping digression etc.For example say we have embarked on a journey. Miles & miles we walk. And the city we are walking to is close by. We are unaware of the fact that the city is close by & feel very tired thinking that we have walked a long distance , that this is not possible & begin to take a side road digressing. Those greater beings can see that the city is close for us & that we are digressing disheartened & they can block this digression. But they cannot make us walk.

Agreed. In the Christian scriptures I was brought up in, but I do not have a taste for that at all, I remember this saying: help yourself and heavens will help...

I see that this is what is taking place..so we are only concerned with " help yourself" ....and K says that same thing in his own ways too..so would anyone walking down that way, if we can talk about a way.

this is where the entire human society took a wrong shift ...we have brought forth individuality where the global must absolutely prevail ,I mean in the survival practical fields of all kind and we have brought forth a collective structure or form of thinking ( organised so called religions of all kind,) where the personal-individual must prevail absolutely..aka in the "help yourself" situation..

this is a disaster ..both personally and collectively...we are digging our graves.

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
But I feel we have to do our job fully. Nobody can do the job for us.

Again agreed here

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
And will not dependence on an outside agency for seeing weaken us? Do we wait then thinking we must get that? Can a suffering person wait? He has to act. Belief will debilitate him.If some help is forthcoming unknown to us let that be. I feel we cannot think about that. Appealing is escape, not looking.So we cannot depend on anything

Agreed so say my own experiment and the one of some I met too, ..a suffering person cannot wait a second he must act as you say; since very young I was surrender by some sort of heavy suffering( had a counter balance of huge energy too) I had to act on that , no one could help, no one still can when it comes about actually doing something, but we must share our experiments not knowing about a result at all...and yes if there is some help or some sort of guidance , yes one cannot count on it AT ALL, never...because we, human, have no grasp at all on that..

it all comes down to : thought's dictatorship on the brain-mind is our problem, for me it is clear that it is not meant to function alone when we are so called adults, thought is a tool and as such must be use by "something" which is not of thought in order to give it a sort of right direction, we have lost that too ..any form of suffering whether mild or not signals that..but we globally have lost touch with all that...the thieves leading us with our consent have made us a bunch of idiots at the best..and we go along with it ...

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Now if we say in awareness thought is active then have we said that thought cannot resolve this issue of suffering? We both say that thought cannot. Does awareness become a different tool if thought is associated, involved?

If and when thought is associated somehow, as a remote spectator, all this taking place as "it" wishes, this awareness or weird energy or the otherness or whatever word suits oneself , if and when so thought may be influenced in various ways or not by all what is taking place which is not of the field of thought ...

then what takes place here is too complex for words, I think that here the intellect, the logic, the thinking process has no ability..like science and all forms of analysing and calculating..

this is where very recent modern science, mainly since the so called" century of the lights" negating everything like any Origin which is utterly idiotic even for a clear logical mind etc negating everything but matter is 100% in the wrong way ..this form of decadent science and mind is made as such for mass controlling purposes...as "we" do not understand anything at all..
like in: *there is nothing but chaos and matter, competition is all what there is, we will go somewhere orderly by all fighting against each other, then only the best will survive etc...following this actual madness logic, only one should survive...this is mass suicide...

and unsolved suffering is at the root of that...and there is no one to help..meaning that each one have to walk the right path for himself...it implies that a global intelligent world will come by numerous personal awakening to what we really are..and if there is a tiny pride in that it means that thought is still in charge so that the disaster will go on..

all this must include what is not conscious, thought again cannot do anything about it and here suffering and its immense power is helping in that matter because only suffering itself as a catalyst can solve suffering....but in what way do I mean that? well to be solved usually as it appears the root problems are most now unconscious because of the totalitarianism of the superficial thinking process, so to be solved such problems must include the search for the root within what is now unconscious to us, yet very much alive and more powerful even than the so called superficial conscious, yet even that level is not at all that conscious..by properly living suffering as it must be lived this turns on some other capacity(ies) and such capacity(ies) have the ability to reach the entire thinking process, what has become unconscious included..

to be continued or not ??

cheerio.

Dan ...........

This post was last updated by Daniel Paul. (account deleted) Mon, 26 Mar 2018.

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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 #47
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Daniel Paul. wrote:
I do not know about greater beings yet some experiences I had are not contradicting this assertion, it could had happened that I had an encounter of that kind in a telepathic experience, not caused by me at all but by ??

Hello Dan,

You know when Nandini Mehta was being divorced by her husband there had been concern that K's name would get dragged in the law suit. K reportedly assured Nandini's sister Pupul Jayakar to fight if they were right(legally) & said not to worry about him saying there are greater beings to protect him.(Biography by Pupul Jayakar). But here we have to be careful! We may start imagining things.

Daniel Paul. wrote:
I was told that I could not make it happen by myself so I was warned by this unknown person not even to try it....

This can be very dangerous. Will this not debilitate us? I am not saying that was imaginary. I do not know. But we have to be very careful with this type of thing, isn't it?

Main thing is to be critically aware no matter what happens I think. If we don't abandon inquiry then we cannot fall in to a pit.

You know inner inquiry can lead to remarkable things.It is only a limited range of light that is visible to us. At one point you may become sensitive to ranges beyond this limit. But the best might be to remain mum because you might otherwise get dubbed as 'nutty' by those who don't see & they are in the majority.

What do you mean by specificity please?

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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 #48
Thumb_stringio Daniel Paul. Ireland 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Hello Dan,

You know when Nandini Mehta was being divorced by her husband there had been concern that K's name would get dragged in the law suit. K reportedly assured Nandini's sister Pupul Jayakar to fight if they were right(legally) & said not to worry about him saying there are greater beings to protect him.(Biography by Pupul Jayakar). But here we have to be careful! We may start imagining things.

Hello Kapila..

well yes I read a lot about those k's experiments.

I usually do not imagine in such matter...imagination is far too limited and brings pain when it is not used in the proper field.

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:

Daniel Paul. wrote:

I was told that I could not make it happen by myself so I was warned by this unknown person not even to try it....

This can be very dangerous. Will this not debilitate us? I am not saying that was imaginary. I do not know. But we have to be very careful with this type of thing, isn't it?

Well no it cannot be dangerous in what I know, as to debilitating us, well it may create an unconscious desire yes, this again will create more suffering as if it was not enough ...I just say it as it took place, the rest is not of my concern..yes you do not know and this is fine and logical..you know the writing on the internet or anywhere else is missing so much, nothing matches a real talk and far from it, yet of course in real talks some clever ones may fool us too.

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Main thing is to be critically aware no matter what happens I think. If we don't abandon inquiry then we cannot fall in to a pit.

Not sure about that for me, I consciously says that for me as I am not willing to give any advice here at all; there are things I know which are beyond any doubt concerning myself and those moments.In such moments of pure weird contentment for no reasons there is no room for doubt ..

OK k and the Tao too and many more wise persons said something like: the man who says he knows does not know and the man who knows does not say ... well i wish good luck to anyone caught in such saying !

having reasonable doubt on how to make a proper house is part of the analytical process, but there are fields in life where there is no room for that.

whatever others may say does not matter when one speaks facts, as one just say his experiments because he or she must do that..k could well have clearly decided not to talk, I heard that the Buddha hesitated before he spoke...is this true ?

I do not inquire, I live suffering so leave it alone when it is there at me and this since early childhood...then some events take place as they apparently wishes ..I never searched to inquire into the program of the analytic process it just was there, it came in a few weeks. Sounds like if I do that perfectly all the time, of course not ;-)

this is the ways or discontentment, k was mentioning the flame of discontentment to an old lady I remember ...I could find this specific statement but found this other one


  • Keep discontent alive


Is not discontent essential in our life, to any question, to any inquiry, to probing, to finding out what is the real, what is Truth, what is essential in life? I may have this flaming discontent in college; and then I get a good job and this discontent vanishes. I am satisfied, I struggle to maintain my family, I have to earn a livelihood and so my discontent is calmed, destroyed, and I become a mediocre entity satisfied with things of life, and I am not discontent. But the flame has to be maintained from the beginning to the end, so that there is true inquiry, true probing into the problem of what discontent is. Because the mind seeks very easily a drug to make it content with virtues, with qualities, with ideas, with actions, it establishes a routine and gets caught up in it. We are quite familiar with that, but our problem is not how to calm discontent, but how to keep it smoldering, alive, vital. All our religious books, all our gurus, all political systems pacify the mind, quieten the mind, influence the mind to subside, to put aside discontent and wallow in some form of contentment.Is it not essential to be discontented in order to find what is true?

J. Krishnamurti, The Book of Life

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I consider discontentment to be a process..let's use it properly then.

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
You know inner inquiry can lead to remarkable things.It is only a limited range of light that is visible to us. At one point you may become sensitive to ranges beyond this limit. But the best might be to remain mum because you might otherwise get dubbed as 'nutty' by those who don't see & they are in the majority.

yes so little is visible, but that is normal as long as the superficial part of thought leads the entire brain-mind preventing our other capacities to function, that is what is happening to us...mind you the superficial thought is that way because it has to be that way, it just cannot deal with a whole life but only with some practical aspects of it..it is a tool , a radar creating what is me and not me, then we don't fall from the cliffs ,bang in any tree, or into each other ...

now all this must take place as a part of a natural process initiated by let's say the Origin and must produce what we may call discontentment etc..it is part of the process as a human..

we are born with only a part of our capacities turned on, the others must be turned on somehow later on in life...and it is thought by seeing and living the disaster and pain it produces which will make the first necessary move.

there would be much to say here but i keep it simple for now.

this is where we globally make a stop when meeting discontentment, we try to overcome it and our societies are the direct consequences of this attempt to overcome what cannot be overcome , this is where I locate THE wrong turn...

the analyser is not fit for a whole life, it is fit for some practical functions only like my lawnmower cut the lawn..and do nothing else..

at some stage it will reach limits, the earlier the better in fact, this is where pain as discontentment starts ,at fist it is mild ...then it increases and will not stop unless we go into that , not using thought, then as one does not go into that insane madness has started and it takes various forms from quite funny ones not harming others to criminal ones..the criminal ones win all the time..very simple what takes place on earth.

but we are stuck there in an imaginary running away from pain and nonsense , caught in there like in quick sands.

the observer is the observed says k, by the way I never tried to understand that ; now here I say "me is suffering " as one item, but the dividing analytical process sees two items, one it sees is "me-myself" and the other one is "suffering"..this does not exist as two separates elements, it is one element..me is trying to act on suffering as if it was not itself..it never works..

and this catch22 has remarkable properties, the first one practically unknown is that analysing cannot solve it, K said it of course as usual, he saw and so lived everything in the matter this is obvious.to solve that I must not think...analyse...

the second one, which is a direct outcome of the first one, is forcing thought, if thought does the right move, to stop analysing the matter of suffering without even realising it, will-desire is now how of the game.
At this stage there is suffering only, so no hope, no analysing, no escape, no explanation, no taming, no facing, etc..thought is the one which must make the first right move by living the painful life and not trying to escape from it by any means available and there are thousands means to do that. Thought sees that it is defeated and stays still for once "whatever happens" ...it is in a state of shock and abandons its fight for what it wants...

that is THE moment.

if this is not done suffering-discontentment will not be solved and will remain whether hidden whether not hidden, but usually it is hidden due to the dictatorship of the superficial thought.

if and that is a pretty big if, if we do the right thing, then something unpredictable and unmissable will take place..as far as I know one cannot hope for anything...

If this is not utter madness then problems leading to discontentment and more are part of life and must take place as well as the must be solved, this is not a task for thought yet it will participate in it at the first step..this is where thought fails constantly by trying to replace the facts by its petty desires ..what is versus what should be , again Mr K has it of course.

then more effects of suffering now acting as a catalyst will take place...as they wishes, I see that there is not control over it..all this means with or without thought dictatorship..

To get dubbed as nutty or not does not matter...but I know what you bring here of course...this is not of my concern, yet of course it will affect the situation as everything does and as such will need to be solved the proper way.

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
What do you mean by specificity please?

well I mean peculiarity...that was about telepathic , it contains something peculiar in it.. if one has not lived it, this peculiarity cannot be invented...

Well , this is not easy to write all that down, mind you my wife says that when we talk it is very clear but when I try to write that down it is not clear to her..so I am sorry to impose that on anyone...

all the best to everyone...

to be continued or not...

Dan ...........

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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 #49
Thumb_stringio Daniel Paul. Ireland 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

A short one,back to the topic with some quotes.

Was Buddha's sathipattana meditation originally same as what K taught?

our foundations of mindfulness is an important part mentioned in the Buddhist doctrine.It is namely -1) Kayanupassana- Awareness of the body. 2) Vedananupassana- Awareness of pain . 3) Chittanupassana- Awareness of thought. & 4) Dhammanupassana -Awareness of mental phenomena. It is stated as great Buddha’s liberation way & thus the most important part of the teachings in achieving psychological freedom. Awareness of these four is called ‘sathipattana meditation’ through which the blissful state of nirvana is reached.

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k J.U.: Is there bliss after ending sorrow? Will everyone be happy?

K: No. I never said that. I said the ending of sorrow is the beginning of compassion, not bliss.

I say this satisfaction and that satisfaction are on the same level.

K: I quite agree. I would like to ask something: Are we discussing this as a theory, as something to be learnt, studied, informed about, or is it a fact in our lives? At what level are we discussing all this? If we are not clear on this, we will mess it up.

The speaker says sorrow is an endless thing that man has lived with, whether it is his neighbour or a child being beaten and so on. And can it end? You come along and tell me it can end. I either treat it as a theory or I say, "Show me the way, show me how to end it, the manner in which it can end.' That's all I am interested in. We never come to that point. He says to me I will show it to you. Am I willing to listen to him completely? I am willing to listen to him because I want to end this thing. So he says to me,Sorrow is the stream, remain with the stream. Don't be in it, don't be of it, under it or over it, but remain with it without any movement because any movement is the cause of sorrow.' I don't know if you see that. So he says, Remain with it. Don't intellectualize, don't get emotional, don't get theoretical, don't seek comfort, just remain with the thing.' That is very difficult and, therefore, we play around with it. And he also tells us that if you go beyond this, there is some beauty that is out of this world. I listen to the"out of this world' and create a contradiction. Do you follow?

Sir, I still insist it exists; it is not a contradiction. I don't know why you say it is a contradiction. If you found something astonishingly original which is not in books, not in the Vedas, if you discovered something of an enormous nature, would you not talk about that, knowing that man will do exactly what he has done before - catch on to that and neglect this? He would do it, sir, because it is a part of the whole thing; it is not there and here. It is part of the tree. The tree is the hidden roots, and if you look at the beauty of the roots, you talk about them. It is not that you are escaping, not that you are contradicting, but you say the tree is the root, the trunk, the leaf, the flower, the beauty of the whole thing.

Madras 15th January 1981

Dan ...........

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Wed, 28 Mar 2018 #50
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Beautiful quote Dan. Thanks. It is always refreshing to read something by K.

Daniel Paul. wrote:
it just cannot deal with a whole life but only with some practical aspects of it..it is a tool , a radar creating what is me and not me, then we don't fall from the cliffs ,bang in any tree, or into each other ...

Beautiful description.Thanks.

Daniel Paul. wrote:
the observer is the observed says k, by the way I never tried to understand that ; now here I say "me is suffering " as one item, but the dividing analytical process sees two items, one it sees is "me-myself" and the other one is "suffering"..this does not exist as two separates elements, it is one element..me is trying to act on suffering as if it was not itself..it never works..

Yes, K says this. It is possibly the most important point he discovered. You see, differently put, the observer or the thinker is not there. Only thinking is there. That is the observed is there but the observer is only a construction of thought. Naturally because only observed is fact. But thought with memory creates a continuing entity although the fact is things are constantly in a flux & therefore an entity as a separate observer or thinker is essentially a mental fabrication.

Thought not seeing a separate entity is non fact battles with the content which is a futile exercise akin to running do drop the shadow!

Daniel Paul. wrote:
To get dubbed as nutty or not does not matter..

Yes. Nothing about you though. I was only referring to a situation I had to counter discussing with some blind guys.

Thanks.

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Wed, 28 Mar 2018 #51
Thumb_stringio Daniel Paul. Ireland 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Yes, K says this. It is possibly the most important point he discovered. You see, differently put, the observer or the thinker is not there. Only thinking is there. That is the observed is there but the observer is only a construction of thought. Naturally because only observed is fact. But thought with memory creates a continuing entity although the fact is things are constantly in a flux & therefore an entity as a separate observer or thinker is essentially a mental fabrication.

Thought not seeing a separate entity is non fact battles with the content which is a futile exercise akin to running do drop the shadow!

Yes agreed..

in fact to make it simple but true in my view...the way is when there is suffering which is the case of everyone on earth ,there is too the vital need to be extremely alert about that in the way that any move about that is wrong..and this is why I brought this now down below k statement, in my previous last post.

Daniel Paul. wrote:
"Show me the way, show me how to end it( sorrow..), the manner in which it can end.' That's all I am interested in. We never come to that point. He says to me I will show it to you. Am I willing to listen to him completely? I am willing to listen to him because I want to end this thing. So he says to me,Sorrow is the stream, remain with the stream. Don't be in it, don't be of it, under it or over it, but remain with it without any movement because any movement is the cause of sorrow.

And I will come back to that again and again as I have to do it every so often when it is there for me since childhood because it is always of actuality for me as well as for the entire planet as it will be as long as thought as the observer observing mental states is still the main leader of the brain which did not seem to have been krishnamurti's case, in that sense he had an extra ordinary life, a life beyond what is alas ordinary for us...then one can relate to anyone about this, anyone willing for once not to escape of course..willing to solve it, that is a clear define worthy goal, the means are unknown and to be found by each one..

this is where it gets too hard...and this is why I realised that in real life, meaning not on the net, mainly, but not only, and some actually being in sorrowful condition would eventually tolerate to go into such matter because they have used all their means of escaping..and are entirely lost..this is a momentum when thought may see that it is defeated, useless, and stop analysing, even for a second the first time is enough as when thought does not lead even for a second then at the same time something enters into the "game" and this something will in any case leave a mark on the brain mind that there is much more in life than the petty shallow unsolved problems we live in...having lived that once then going back to a normal life is not possible..but entering this new way contains no certitude..but sometimes it brings as it wishes this weird contentment which has no reason and bring oneself not to ask for the meaning of all this...because such question is only asked by someone who is suffering...as another mean of escape through explaining this time..

it worked with my 5 children when it was needed and actual partner in some very noticeable proportions..but I was there to help when the time was right...you know between us as no one listen, this is a sort of shamanism as I realised it...I have realised that when watching some video about this ayahuasca brew in the Amazonian mainly, where people go somehow deep into their fear and so on, then something happens under the guidance of a sort of shaman...the shaman is like a catalyst, it does not do anything for others it is just trying to make people walk the right path..according to his own experiment and something which is there to sort of help ...the spirit of the forest..??

I am watching a lot of videos about some of our hidden past,from 12800 to 11600 BC to be precise, that the thieves leading the world are trying to hide from ourselves, because they wishes us to be as ignorant as possible as we are easier to steal then ...now they have found this 12 000 years old site in Turkey, gobekli tepe is the name ...from many disciplines now the mad insane world we are entirely responsible for is now challenged ..and it may be only the beginning...

when going into such matter like mental sorrow I always have in mind too the outer condition of the planet with mainly but not only this always at war occidental world , today using proxy armies mainly so trying to hide itself, which after having colonised most of the planet for his wealth and blood thirst and killed millions of people, destroying cultures, monuments , lives etc this world is again searching for another pretext to start another big war because this world is already now finished like one man's life is when having reach the limits of thought madness and pain unwilling to live it...suicide it is...you know this occidental world , not only of course but is today the main danger for our survival , is in terrible suffering despite all the wealth it may have and it is willing not to kill itself alone..and this world to save itself must see that it is like for one person to save oneself, one must live what is..thanks to k again of course here..

etc..

all the best to you...

Dan ...........

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Fri, 30 Mar 2018 #52
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Daniel Paul. wrote:
,there is too the vital need to be extremely alert about that in the way that any move about that is wrong..

Yes, that's the whole point. It is movement that makes image building possible.In remaining with it fully there is no leeway for the past to come in, isn't it? In complete attention no recognition is possible & thus no image is built.

All the best to you also.

This post was last updated by Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Fri, 30 Mar 2018.

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Fri, 30 Mar 2018 #53
Thumb_stringio Daniel Paul. Ireland 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:

Daniel Paul. wrote:

,there is too the vital need to be extremely alert about that in the way that any move about that is wrong..

Yes, that's the whole point. It is movement that makes image building possible.In remaining with it fully there is no leeway for the past to come in, isn't it? In complete attention no recognition is possible & thus no image is built.

Well I must say that put this way I do not know, nor do i understand this image building, because I never tried to analyse all that,yet as usual of course thought tries it all the time, but it does not speak to me at all and I just get lost all the time in some sort of nonsensical oblivion leading nowhere but in a sort of gloomy pool..mind you no worries here this is not at all a criticism of your words as I like the sharing here..

in fact I like reading k, well since years this is all what I mainly can read as I do not like written words at all since young , and then with k we have videos, that is great...

k for me had developed the ability to tackle any problem as it arises, this is mentioned not as such but all over the place; tackled does not mean solved but may lead to that we must understand it . At least I understand that from a long and wide reading of his words..

and that is extremely important if not vital to get that point..when one does not tackle a problem as it arises, mental one we talk about here, then after some time it becomes unconscious yet vert much active then hidden from our limited superficial thinking we do not perceive it and gradually it becomes pain adding to the tons of already hidden unsolved active problems we have ..to be able to tackle a problem one must recognise the warning as a symptom that occurs each time there is problem ...not tackling a problem , mental one leads to suffering, and much more..

One point,when this bliss is there , there is no sorrow , no fear etc..this weird energy is free of all that, sorrow is thought's privilege when it is wrong..

when problems are solved there is some goodness in it and very little sorrow comes and goes as much as it is solved...one may say it is gone as when tackled and solved from scratch it does not evolve into a sort of mental painful cancer..

sorrow solves sorrow, meaning no movement..so says k,..I agree..and must insist on that moment,as usually we speak of it, say brilliant or not brilliant things about it, then it is stored somewhere and forgotten.. and I think this should be a big huge mistake ,if thought acting secretly as it will try all the time anyway, is in fact trying to suppress it totally for good...leading to a frozen mental situation called security...not able one more time to cope with what life is..life is for us mentally a succession of problems brought by thought which have to be solved, and we have everything in us to do so but this is usually dormant ..the asleep must awaken is it said in a famous sci-fi movie ...fear is the mind killer is it added..if fear is described as *running away from what is so from fact , from the real * , then it becomes much clearer ..

k:Remain with it. Don't intellectualize, don't get emotional, don't get theoretical, don't seek comfort, just remain with the thing.' That is very difficult and, therefore, we play around with it. And he also tells us that if you go beyond this, there is some beauty that is out of this world. I listen to the"out of this world' and create a contradiction. Do you follow?

then this comes as a part of life and is an active doing for all lifetime...

there are at least two levels involved here, one is where thought is solving its problems leading to suffering by doing nothing at all, a real nothing at all, no movement, and there is this mysterious energy where pure contentment ..all this by doing nothing at all..

thought solving problems by doing nothing then the problem as a catalyst solves it somehow ( our other capacities at work now) contains some sort of well-being, relief,goodness ...,and there will be an instant learning taking place too, the content of it is impossible to predict..

as to this mysterious energy which is there touching deeply the brain-mind as it wishes, the brain-mind cannot touch it though ..this contentment cannot be imagined nor described because it has absolutely nothing at all in common with any of thoughts capacities,sensations, etc ..it is not even extraordinary nor fantastic, etc..it has nothing in common with sensations as we know them ...

the most vivid brilliant imagination cannot imagine it at all..
in this energy there is no comparison, no values, no hierarchies, etc this is why k was naturally sort of naturally humble and concerned with the world of course

But none of this will exist in real life , talking about my case here, as long as thought dos not solve its problems as they occur...

k has often say that we only have thought to start with ...

and we are not miles away from that but light years away and in another dimension..which exists nowhere but in one's skull..

Now to expand to the outer effects of those questions and matters, we are leaving in a total ignorance of almost everything regarding the origins of the practical situations of mankind on earth of course, where war and destruction is now the only occidental outer motto for example as well as no need for any proof to be guilty, words are sufficient as we see today etc false history, false science , polluted food , polluted air and soils ,polluted brains etc ..depressed and suffering people all over the place trying their best to repeat :I feel very good all is fine..

thought as a program for me is totally degenerating of course, I say that based on the other capacities I like some have seen turning themselves on, since a long time now it has become totally blind to almost everything deep, to any roots etc ,acting randomly from some unknown desires background .to another one every single minutes .

Mainly it has one single quest : absolute contentment without knowing that it is not a quest but an escape from its total despair an sorrow, we think we are reaching something when in fact we are only running away from ourselves without of course knowing that this is what we do..a whole life of running away we live..omg what a disaster !!!!

the quest for absolute contentment ..whatever the means are, and in reality thought lives one single thing: absolute discontentment, and it refuses , mostly by ignorance in fact, it refuses to live it ,trying to replace the fact by a non fact of its creation, believing that because it is said or thought it will be ;( of course what is versus what should be..thank k ..)

thought is not that clever at all you know, apart in some practical fields when it cooperates voluntarily of course but that is normal it is for that reason only,

so in the outer like in the inner the very same movement is at work, I mention that because when one starts "seeing" beyond thought , the knowing of the outer comes too at the same time...

and this is going to shake one's brain-mind in proportions which are incredibly huge....but..all this is exactly the same as suffering-sorrow for one person, same movement with amplifications of effects due to the amount of deluded brains at work..in the outer likewise there will be the need to live the horror without movement...then things will go swiftly from there..it is very simple in fact..

..I think that for now in your thread I have said more than enough as I purposely focus on one specific moment only , unless someone wants to go somewhere further or else , but this talk was inspiring..thanks for that.

cheerio..

Dan ...........

This post was last updated by Daniel Paul. (account deleted) Fri, 30 Mar 2018.

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Sat, 31 Mar 2018 #54
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Daniel Paul. wrote:
nor do i understand this image building, because I never tried to analyse all that,

When we talk to someone we also think in between isn't it? We think about facts related to the topic. That is directly memory as I understand. Language is also directly memory. All that we need to function.

Now in addition to that we may also think speculatively. Is he trying to fool me, he is faithful or whatever. Now this is an opinion. Now this opinion is a thought. From where is it coming? Brain? I would say it is not information recorded in the brain. Now is that not formed at that moment? It is I feel. That is building an image-at least as I see.

Daniel Paul. wrote:
.mind you no worries here this is not at all a criticism of your words as I like the sharing here..

No, no, you can criticize.I like very much to look into the point.

Daniel Paul. wrote:
in fact I like reading k, well since years this is all what I mainly can read as I do not like written words at all since young

Well you have company. After reading K I lost all interest reading anything else!

Daniel Paul. wrote:
k for me had developed the ability to tackle any problem as it arises, this is mentioned not as such but all over the place; tackled does not mean solved but may lead to that we must understand it . At least I understand that from a long and wide reading of his words..

Yes, I also picked up this 'staying with it' etc., from him. Also what he calls 'observation' without a separate observer. Sometime I may be in contradiction but thanks to K I can fall back on these points anytime & gain some strength.

Daniel Paul. wrote:
and that is extremely important if not vital to get that point..when one does not tackle a problem as it arises, mental one we talk about here, then after some time it becomes unconscious yet vert much active then hidden from our limited superficial thinking we do not perceive it and gradually it becomes pain adding to the tons of already hidden unsolved active problems we have ..to be able to tackle a problem one must recognise the warning as a symptom that occurs each time there is problem ...not tackling a problem , mental one leads to suffering, and much more..

Great. Thanks.

Daniel Paul. wrote:
sorrow solves sorrow, meaning no movement

Yes, no movement. Movement is perpetuation of sorrow.

Daniel Paul. wrote:
by doing nothing at all, a real nothing at all, no movement, and there is this mysterious energy where pure contentment ..all this by doing nothing at all..

Yes, movement is continuation. Non movement is summation of energy ending formation.

Daniel Paul. wrote:
thought solving problems by doing nothing then the problem as a catalyst solves it somehow ( our other capacities at work now) contains some sort of well-being, relief,goodness ...,and there will be an instant learning taking place too, the content of it is impossible to predict..

Thought solving the problem or awareness? I guess you mean the same.

Daniel Paul. wrote:
I think that for now in your thread I have said more than enough as I purposely focus on one specific moment only , unless someone wants to go somewhere further or else , but this talk was inspiring..thanks for that.

Daniel Paul. wrote:
I think that for now in your thread I have said more than enough as I purposely focus on one specific moment only , unless someone wants to go somewhere further or else , but this talk was inspiring..thanks for that.

Ok, thanks Dan.

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Sat, 31 Mar 2018 #55
Thumb_stringio Daniel Paul. Ireland 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Now in addition to that we may also think speculatively. Is he trying to fool me, he is faithful or whatever. Now this is an opinion. Now this opinion is a thought. From where is it coming? Brain? I would say it is not information recorded in the brain. Now is that not formed at that moment? It is I feel. That is building an image-at least as I see.

Hello again, I feel the need to go into a few of your points here and thanks for trying to show what you see by image building, if I understand you well this is what I call thinking-analysing, in action so.

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:

Daniel Paul. wrote:

thought solving problems by doing nothing then the problem as a catalyst solves it somehow ( our other capacities at work now) contains some sort of well-being, relief,goodness ...,and there will be an instant learning taking place too, the content of it is impossible to predict..

Thought solving the problem or awareness? I guess you mean the same.

No I do not, in time of crisis, when thought is going mad so is suffering etc, which is most of the time in fact because we allowed thought to be our only function at work, in time of crisis so, thought has to do one last action about that( not at once and for all ,but again and again) , one action which is for once to do nothing at all, no active thinking or even if there is thinking as there will be somehow ,something will take place because thought for once will be able not to listen to itself yet hearing it.., this doing nothing is a voluntary action of thought regarding itself..because it knows ,sees, has learned etc that when it comes to mental problems, it simply has no ability at all..

this can happen only when thought is defeated is what I know for myself, and only a very heavy pain can do that...the pain does not need to reach 10 out of ten marks, it all depends too on the sensitivity and sensibility of oneself..the weaker the better to go into those fields....

then something else not known from thought will take place..and here no prediction can be made at all is what I know..later on we may go into that, I will be interested to develop that here and-or in another thread but not right now..

So I am away for some time riding the motorbike somewhere, we may or not coming back to some points we mentioned here later on....

Take care..

Dan ...........

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Sun, 01 Apr 2018 #56
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Hi Dan,

As long as you say thought cannot do it, it is acceptable to.

Yes, shock can stop thought.

Thank you. Will discuss with you again when you are back. May be on another thread. Thanks.

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Wed, 11 Apr 2018 #57
Thumb_stringio Daniel Paul. Ireland 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Hi Dan,

As long as you say thought cannot do it, it is acceptable to.

Yes, shock can stop thought.

Thank you. Will discuss with you again when you are back. May be on another thread. Thanks.

Hello Kapila, I am back but give a few days to land from my trip....cheers..

Dan ...........

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Fri, 13 Apr 2018 #58
Thumb_stringio Daniel Paul. Ireland 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
As long as you say thought cannot do it, it is acceptable to.

Yes, shock can stop thought.

Well kapila, to see that , now looking backward into my own history , there was two very distinctive steps in this matter, one is the discovery that I am my suffering and it is self created, this took place by leaving suffering win....this would need more development in time..

secondly the vision as it was clearly a vision taking place within weeks, the vision of some of thought's program...like in: why desire, why self pride, why ,why , why this or that etc ...

and third each time something is seen that way , it is in fact just an event on the road of life..one cannot sit on it for good..there is not such thing ..

but sure it helps a lot...

Dan ...........

This post was last updated by Daniel Paul. (account deleted) Fri, 13 Apr 2018.

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Sun, 15 Apr 2018 #59
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Daniel Paul. wrote:
secondly the vision as it was clearly a vision taking place within weeks, the vision of some of thought's program...like in: why desire, why self pride, why ,why , why this or that etc ...

Yes, it is a new vision.Yes,this requires understanding the network of thought.

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Sun, 15 Apr 2018 #60
Thumb_stringio Daniel Paul. Ireland 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Yes,this requires understanding the network of thought.

Yes it does and in my case I surely did not search for it at all, like for all other "visions" , insights, revelation....
( all those words to say that it was entirely involuntary and took place by , for once and more since, being the suffering itself which is nothing extra ordinary at all as this is precisely the actual state of human thought since some time)....
.....in the field of suffering; searching means thought is 100% at work..and thought can only imagine what it desires most taking no account at all about facts of course, and nothing else...then imagining about some fanciful happiness is only an escape of a life of suffering etc..

Dan ...........

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