Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Choiceless self-awareness


Displaying posts 211 - 233 of 233 in total
Sat, 03 Feb 2018 #211
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1241 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Will you manage to get out for a bike ride today?

Sadly not, recovering from a nasty flu and
also the weather here is 3° and rainy so only go outside if necessary.

Sean Hen wrote:

Wim Opdam wrote:
But if want to play the game of suggesting me feeling angry instead of looking into your own reflections of feelings, even then you are not New, that game is played already so long by someone who is no longer with us.

I'm not sure what you mean here Wim.
I thought you sounded angry. Are you saying you weren't angry?

I'm not able to give you certainty, what was meant was that someone whith almost the same name - "J" - instead of "S" was playing that game of suggesting the other part did have feelings like angry etc..

I still have feelings like: being happy that You're not playing that game, but being angry that's a very long time ago.

If my wording sounds lecturing, I'm sorry but this was not intending to be.

For what "mindfullness" concerned, I once was curious of this new hype, I studied it and saw what was involved and offered you that information, never gone as far as what the dictionary formulated that femonene.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Sat, 03 Feb 2018 #212
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1241 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:

I was asking a question in a playful kind of way

Yes and I was doing something what is bothering people around me a lifetime: " Being too serious ". Should I do something about that .?

BUT Anyway, always nice to debate with you Sean

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Sat, 03 Feb 2018 #213
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 729 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
Yes and I was doing something what is bothering people around me a lifetime: " Being too serious ". Should I do something about that .?

Hi Wim. Thanks for the reply which I appreciate. I hope you're getting over that nasty flu! Well, there's nothing wrong with being serious. What we discuss on this forum is very serious after all. Maybe I'm too jokey sometimes. Communicating on an online forum can often lead to little misunderstandings but it's always good when they can be straightened out.

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Sat, 03 Feb 2018 #214
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
K is indeed on fire in that talk.

And what, 71 years old? Can you imagine K at 50 or 40? I would suggest that at the height of his involvement, Rajagopal could have insisted K allow at least a few to be filmed. And jeez, he was in Hollywood hob nobbin with the posh and color technology at some point, can you imagine?? And didn't he even at least entertain the idea of playing the part of Gautama Siddheartha in a big budget production?? ?

This post was last updated by richard head (account deleted) Sat, 03 Feb 2018.

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Sun, 04 Feb 2018 #215
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3139 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

K is indeed on fire in that talk.

And what, 71 years old?

Yep...amazing isn't it? When I first calculated his age in the video I was quite amazed. If not for the white hair he'd appear to be in his 50's. It's a shame he wasn't filmed back in the 30's and 40's. He was filmed when he made the famous 'truth is a pathless land' statement back in the late 20's however. I wonder when the first audio tapes were made.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Sun, 04 Feb 2018.

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Mon, 05 Feb 2018 #216
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1241 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
Another section showing variations in the Krishnamurti talk given on February 8, 1948

Hi Ken D,

It's clear that there are variations in de transcriptions, this is also the case with translations, but is the essence of what is said or maybe better formulated 'where is pointed' to corrupted with ?

If one take it seriously it doesn't matter who or how something is said but understand what is said , so the wording is not important as well as the person who said it, but what is said and the understanding of it is.

Another point in this is the question of the other source you referring to, why do you not mention that ?

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Mon, 05 Feb 2018 #217
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5305 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
Food for thought.

That's exactly what it is. Thinking about, discussing, opinionating, intellectualizing (not to be confused with intelligent discussion) everything K said is what you and several others want to do instead of seeing what K is pointing out. In that long very good quote you put up, Ken, about K discussing the "old brain" K spoke of leaving thought and seeing with "eyes" that are not rooted in the past, not an immediate interpretation by our conditioned mind, our consciousness. Seeing things fresh as they are happening.

Endless, mostly pointless discussion, about this detail or that detail hasn't and probably won't get anyone anywhere with what K was pointing out. What I wrote above about "letting go" of everything, letting go of your impressions, beliefs, opinions and conclusions about what you think K was saying seems to me to be imperative to seeing what K is pointing to.

Personally I have spent years and years doing this same "discussing" and thinking about what K is saying instead of clearing your, our, my thoughts and looking at what K is saying. I can attest to the fact that anything else is a a waste of time. I regret the time I have wasted doing this myself. I'm talking about most of the last 40 years of my life.

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Mon, 05 Feb 2018 #218
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1241 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
If the words don't accurately represent what was spoken, then the understanding is compromised

So are you saying that if what is said in court is not accurate written down the mis-action for why the person is in court took not place ?

Seems to me a very strange reasoning.

Fingerprints on something is not damaging this something.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Mon, 05 Feb 2018 #219
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 443 posts in this forum Offline

Who here can point to someone - and you're not allowed to point to yourself - who perfectly expresses what K expressed and in no way slants what K said or even slightly misrepresents him?

It seems to me extremely common to find someone describing or paraphrasing K in a way that is sort of correct, but a little off. It's common to find people who who get some aspects of K teachings but seem to miss others. Isn't this so?

So all that Ken is saying is that this kind of interpretative understanding, that is one step removed from what K directly said, exists even in some of the early transcriptions of K talks. Therefore, if you are interested in authentic, unfiltered K teaching, you have to be careful with those taken down in shorthand and recalled later, as well as those edited by Rajagopal and Lutyens.

These talks and books may reveal great insight to you. But be aware that they may not be 100% authentic.

And even in the precisely recorded talks, K may sometimes say things in very different, even contradictory ways, although perhaps pointing to the same underlying matter.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 05 Feb 2018.

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Mon, 05 Feb 2018 #220
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1241 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
http://www.thenearestshore.org/jkrishnamurti/in...

Thanks for giving this source, which is out of the complete works and based on only after the dead of Rajagopal available archive.

The same man who earned a livelihood by copywrites of the transcriptions and after the break with K. Went back to the theosofical society. So a bad man did a good work.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Mon, 05 Feb 2018.

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Mon, 05 Feb 2018 #221
Thumb_basquiat-boom-for-real-feature-001 Katy Alias United Kingdom 345 posts in this forum Offline

...They've got so much thing to say but when the rain falls it don't fall on one man's house - Bob Marley

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Tue, 06 Feb 2018 #222
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

idiot ? wrote:
It seems to me extremely common to find someone describing or paraphrasing K in a way that is sort of correct,

Yes, quite so. Most people appear to have, of varying degrees, a "verbal/intellectual" understanding of the things K spoke of. Lots of repeating things heard and lots of (edited) quotes of Krishnamurti. All this was going on during K's life also.

The Christian fanatics/believers I have met in my life express the notion that there was Divine intervention afoot whilst the word of God has gone through various editions and translations. Isn't that what is being expressed on this thread? Oh well yes, turns out we don't have K's exact words being preserved in the KFA vaults after all, but it's ok cuz kind of understanding stuff is sufficient.....argh!

This post was last updated by richard head (account deleted) Tue, 06 Feb 2018.

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Tue, 06 Feb 2018 #223
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Ken D wrote:
The only stainless books are Krishnamurti's Notebook and Krishnamurti's Journal,

I believe the book "Krishnamurti to himself" is transcribed from audio tapes K made speaking directly into a tape machine. As I recall there were a few "inaudible" words or phrases but I don't see how/why he would allow someone to edit something like that.

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Tue, 06 Feb 2018 #224
Thumb_basquiat-boom-for-real-feature-001 Katy Alias United Kingdom 345 posts in this forum Offline

Thank you Ken and Kirsten for the above #235

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Thu, 08 Feb 2018 #225
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
I regret the time I have wasted doing this myself. I'm talking about most of the last 40 years of my life.

You know Jack, contrary to your belief, I have always admired and respected you. As well as all the other posters at Kinfonet past and present. Sometimes the human or fifth element divides us from our common interests and distracts us from what is fundamental in our lives. Krisnamurti continued to speak for over 60 years to remind us of that. Never regret that the itch he refused to scratch burns inside you. You may feel like you wasted that time of your life seeking an answer in seemingly the only way/path available to the mind, but I suggest that it is never a waste to "be aware" that there must be a different way for humanity to co-exist (relatively) conflict free. You/we are the reason K lived his life the way he did. Pointing to the unknowable, as he did, through the only media we can comprehend (knowledge) is an extremely difficult task. Yet he continued day after day till the moment life ended. Monumental gesture indeed. It is on us then to continue the journey of aloneness together. That means even though the egos clash, because that is the nature of egotism, we must not quit and give up. This does not mean to start a religious movement and worship and praise and what not, but to continue with what you have started here Jack. Undressing the ego with brutal self honesty, as you did in your post, must be a daily phenomenon if we are at all serious.

This post was last updated by richard head (account deleted) Thu, 08 Feb 2018.

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Sat, 10 Feb 2018 #226
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5305 posts in this forum Offline

Richard/Randall that was an interesting post,#237. And if I understand you correctly, and I may not, you think I have given up something. Maybe you're right. Maybe what has been given up is thinking I can reason, intellectualize, think my way to more clearly understanding what K pointed out. It seems evident that thought is the problem and not the solution.

What thought can do is see all the obstacles it has created to understanding. One of those obstacles is thought itself. I believe K said on many occasions that by negating the false what remains is the "truth". "You" can never know the truth and certainly not give the truth to someone else. Much of what K spoke of was describing what doesn't exist. There is no "you", no center, no ego. What we have always believed is a tangible, existing entity that has a fragment, a soul, that lives forever is just a collection of experiences and knowledge. Physically we need the conditioned brain to go about our daily activities.

But psychologically this belief that we are separate and individual from the rest of humanity is an illusion that is literally destroying the planet we live on. Can we just observe and see that our psychological conditioning, psychological programming, is causing so many problems for the world of which we all are a part? It doesn't look good from where I'm sitting.

It's much easier and much more fun, and interesting, to intellectualize, theorize and discuss at great length than it is to just be attentive to the ramblings of our thoughts. And this is probably why we continue to repeat the same things to each other over and over again.

Most of us have made things K pointed out so much more difficult by thinking too much about them. An example: The observer is the observed is a simple fact that doesn't need to be pondered over endlessly.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Tue, 13 Feb 2018.

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Sat, 17 Feb 2018 #227
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
It's much easier and much more fun, and interesting, to intellectualize, theorize and discuss at great length than it is to just be attentive to the ramblings of our thoughts. And this is probably why we continue to repeat the same things to each other over and over again.

You know, when I point things like this out, over and over, I get a punch in the nose! ;)

Apparently you carry more credibility and so, thank you for pointing all this out to us so that we can not say that we have not heard/seen who we really are and what we are really doing.

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Sun, 18 Feb 2018 #228
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 729 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
Final example of variations in talk given by Krishnamurti on February 8, 1948.
From the official archive page.....

Thanks for posting this Ken. There is obviously an issue here. Luckily we have many audio and video recordings where we can be in no doubt about what K said. In the video I posted to start this thread, we can listen to K saying the sentence "One has to be tremendously aware of every movement of thought". The words obviously convey an important message but the way he says them also transmits passion and urgency and is surely an important part of what he is communicating here.

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Fri, 04 May 2018 #229
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 680 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Krishnamurti explores this question. Any comments on this video would be welcome. You can watch the video here.

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Fri, 04 May 2018 #230
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 680 posts in this forum Offline

I am glad that you shared this valuable video. K is talking about being free from thought and the self . How many of us in this forums want to be free? Very few, most people are satisfy with thought and the self with its anxiety and fears. It keeps them occupied. What k suggests is a 180 degree change in our behavior. Not to be self- concerned all the time like others.

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Fri, 04 May 2018 #231
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5305 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman I don't know why you feel qualified to speak for the rest of us on this forum. Isn't it enough to understand what K pointed out for yourself without worrying about what the rest of us are doing?

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Fri, 04 May 2018 #232
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 680 posts in this forum Offline

Hay, I say what I say. Mind your own business.

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Sat, 05 May 2018 #233
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 680 posts in this forum Offline

What a difference in facial expressions.

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