Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Choiceless self-awareness


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Fri, 02 Feb 2018 #211
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 630 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
In seeing there is a goal in sight and will is involved , what more is needed to see ego is at work.

Hi Wim. Is there a goal in sight? When K says, "One has to be tremendously aware of every movement of thought" is that a goal?

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Fri, 02 Feb 2018 #212
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1063 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Hi Wim. Is there a goal in sight? When K says, "One has to be tremendously aware of every movement of thought" is that a goal?

So where is awareness - even small - to not seeing that I was talking about "Mindfulness" and not of the words of K.?

Don't you see that only the name is already a wrong indication for awareness to be, because that needs emptiness and silence !!

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Fri, 02 Feb 2018 #213
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 630 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
So where is awareness - even small - to not seeing that I was talking about "Mindfulness" and not of the words of K.?

Don't you see that only the name is already a wrong indication for awareness to be, because that needs emptiness and silence !!

Wim, you sound angry. Were you aware of that anger as it was arising?

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Sat, 03 Feb 2018 #214
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1063 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Wim, you sound angry. Were you aware of that anger as it was arising?

Sean, it is always surprising how some people interpret words completely opposite in their meaning.

but let me explain it.
You wondered what K. would have thought about mindfulness and I replied that to see it for yourself because what K. thought would be superfluous because one can see it for yourself !

Isn't that what the teaching is all about, investigate it and not following the interpretation of others not even K.

But if you want to play the game of suggesting me feeling angry instead of looking into your own reflections of feelings, even then you are not New, that game is played already so long by someone who is no longer with us.

Have a nice day.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Sat, 03 Feb 2018.

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Sat, 03 Feb 2018 #215
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 630 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
Sean, it is always surprising how some people interpret words completely opposite in their meaning.

How very true Wim!

but let me explain it.
You wondered what K. would have thought about mindfulness and I replied that to see it for yourself because what K. thought would be superfluous because one can see it for yourself !

Well, this does sound like a bit of a lecture Wim. You seem to be in the role of a teacher here. No offence meant. I was asking a question in a playful kind of way and didn't really expect a lecture on "see it for yourself". Surely we all know that we have to "see it for yourself" by now, don't we?

Isn't that what the teaching is all about, investigate it and not following the interpretation of others not even K.

Again, hasn't this been said thousands of times on this Forum?

But if you want to play the game of suggesting me feeling angry instead of looking into your own reflections of feelings, even then you are not New, that game is played already so long by someone who is no longer with us.

I'm not sure what you mean here Wim. I thought you sounded angry. Are you saying you weren't angry?

Have a nice day.

You too. A very summy day here with a temperature of around 12 degrees. Will you manage to get out for a bike ride today?

Wim Opdam wrote:
Don't you see that only the name is already a wrong indication for awareness to be, because that needs emptiness and silence !!

The word "mindfulness" in English can be defined in the two following ways below:


  1. the quality or state of being conscious or aware of something.
    "their mindfulness of the wider cinematic tradition"

2.a mental state achieved by focusing one's awareness on the present moment, while calmly acknowledging and accepting one's feelings, thoughts, and bodily sensations, used as a therapeutic technique.

I am neither in favour or against mindfulness but you seemed to dismiss it because you thought the word "mindfulness" meant the mind being full rather than empty. That is how I understood your comment above. Also, the two exclamation marks at the end of your quote above gave me the impression of anger or frustration. I just think that when any of us start a sentence with "Don't you see ..." it does not foster the atmosphere of exploring together as equals.

Anyway, always nice to debate with you Wim.

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Sat, 03 Feb 2018 #216
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3088 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Ken D wrote:

I was a bit shocked to find out the variations in the claimed transcripts of this talk and probably in many of the talks

I cannot understand why, with the available technology, Krishnamurti's talks were not filmed. As important a person as he was, nothing from his early period was accurately recorded. Sorry, but transcribing from memory (even K's memory) is not sufficient. It's almost laughable that no one (of his handlers) from that period thought about the importance of doing this. He should have had a full-time professional film crew documenting his public talks.

Very odd that this was allowed to happen....writing down the talks from memory. K approved of it? I know that K didn't allow filming of the talks until the mid '60's however. At least this is what is stated in the documentary on K done by PBS in the U.S. back in the mid 1960's. They claim that their documentary is the 1st time K allowed one of his talks to be filmed. This took place in Ojai around 1966 or thereabouts. Why he waited so long to allow this is anybody's guess. You can view in on YouTube as The Only Revolution, I think it's titled. Will check for a link later. K is indeed on fire in that talk.

Let it Be

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Sat, 03 Feb 2018 #217
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3088 posts in this forum Offline

Here's the 1st filmed talk: https://youtu.be/lQVzDTzpHXA

Let it Be

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Sat, 03 Feb 2018 #218
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1063 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Will you manage to get out for a bike ride today?

Sadly not, recovering from a nasty flu and
also the weather here is 3° and rainy so only go outside if necessary.

Sean Hen wrote:

Wim Opdam wrote:
But if want to play the game of suggesting me feeling angry instead of looking into your own reflections of feelings, even then you are not New, that game is played already so long by someone who is no longer with us.

I'm not sure what you mean here Wim.
I thought you sounded angry. Are you saying you weren't angry?

I'm not able to give you certainty, what was meant was that someone whith almost the same name - "J" - instead of "S" was playing that game of suggesting the other part did have feelings like angry etc..

I still have feelings like: being happy that You're not playing that game, but being angry that's a very long time ago.

If my wording sounds lecturing, I'm sorry but this was not intending to be.

For what "mindfullness" concerned, I once was curious of this new hype, I studied it and saw what was involved and offered you that information, never gone as far as what the dictionary formulated that femonene.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Sat, 03 Feb 2018 #219
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1063 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:

I was asking a question in a playful kind of way

Yes and I was doing something what is bothering people around me a lifetime: " Being too serious ". Should I do something about that .?

BUT Anyway, always nice to debate with you Sean

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Sat, 03 Feb 2018 #220
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 630 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
Yes and I was doing something what is bothering people around me a lifetime: " Being too serious ". Should I do something about that .?

Hi Wim. Thanks for the reply which I appreciate. I hope you're getting over that nasty flu! Well, there's nothing wrong with being serious. What we discuss on this forum is very serious after all. Maybe I'm too jokey sometimes. Communicating on an online forum can often lead to little misunderstandings but it's always good when they can be straightened out.

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Sat, 03 Feb 2018 #221
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
K is indeed on fire in that talk.

And what, 71 years old? Can you imagine K at 50 or 40? I would suggest that at the height of his involvement, Rajagopal could have insisted K allow at least a few to be filmed. And jeez, he was in Hollywood hob nobbin with the posh and color technology at some point, can you imagine?? And didn't he even at least entertain the idea of playing the part of Gautama Siddheartha in a big budget production?? ?

This post was last updated by richard head (account deleted) Sat, 03 Feb 2018.

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Sun, 04 Feb 2018 #222
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3088 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

K is indeed on fire in that talk.

And what, 71 years old?

Yep...amazing isn't it? When I first calculated his age in the video I was quite amazed. If not for the white hair he'd appear to be in his 50's. It's a shame he wasn't filmed back in the 30's and 40's. He was filmed when he made the famous 'truth is a pathless land' statement back in the late 20's however. I wonder when the first audio tapes were made.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Sun, 04 Feb 2018.

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Sun, 04 Feb 2018 #223
Thumb_k2 Ken D United States 40 posts in this forum Offline

Followup. Another section showing variations in the Krishnamurti talk given on February 8, 1948

The official version from http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teach...

"How to bring about an end to the thinker is our next question, but that very question is erroneous. For, it is still the thinker that is putting this question, thereby giving himself continuity. Only when the thinker is aware of his activities - then only the thinker comes to an end. With great beauty or in moments of great sorrow, the thinker is temporarily driven away, and within that period there is that extraordinary sense of infinite happiness and bliss. It is this creative moment that brings about enduring revolution. It is this state of being, in which the thinker is not, that gives renewal. In this silence when the thinker is absent, does reality come into being."

Another source....

"So, our problem is how to bring about an end to the thinker - it is not a matter of the transformation, the modification of ideas, either of the left or of the right. Only in bringing the thinker to an end is there creativeness. Perhaps you have experienced that while watching a sunset, when there is great beauty: the intensity of it drives the thinker away, and within that moment there is an extraordinary sense of joy. That creative moment brings revolution, which is a state of being. The thinker ceases, not as a result of transforming thoughts, but only by understanding the movements of the thinker and therefore coming to the central issue, the problem itself, which is the thinker. When the thinker is aware of his own movements, when the mind is aware of itself in action - which is not the thinker altering thoughts, but the thinker being aware of himself - , then you will find there comes a period when the mind is absolutely still, when it is meditative, when it is not attracted, not agitated. Then, in that moment, when the thinker is silent, there comes creative being which, if you will experiment, you will find is the foundation of all radical transformation."

This post was last updated by Ken D Sun, 04 Feb 2018.

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Mon, 05 Feb 2018 #224
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1063 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
Another section showing variations in the Krishnamurti talk given on February 8, 1948

Hi Ken D,

It's clear that there are variations in de transcriptions, this is also the case with translations, but is the essence of what is said or maybe better formulated 'where is pointed' to corrupted with ?

If one take it seriously it doesn't matter who or how something is said but understand what is said , so the wording is not important as well as the person who said it, but what is said and the understanding of it is.

Another point in this is the question of the other source you referring to, why do you not mention that ?

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Mon, 05 Feb 2018 #225
Thumb_k2 Ken D United States 40 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
It's clear that there are variations in de transcriptions, this is also the case with translations, but is the essence of what is said or maybe better formulated 'where is pointed' to corrupted with ?

Well, these aren't translations, as they were delivered in English. So somebody is either not recording the talk accurately, or it's being badly edited afterwards. So which version is correct? A court reporter would not make such a mistake. If the words don't accurately represent what was spoken, then the understanding is compromised. Here is the source I used....

http://www.thenearestshore.org/jkrishnamurti/in...

It is unfortunate that virtually everything printed we have access to in regards to what Krishnamurti said has somebody else's fingerprints all over it. Almost all of his books were put together and edited by Rajagopal or Mary Lutyens. The only stainless books are Krishnamurti's Notebook and Krishnamurti's Journal, as well as the videos and audiotapes. And the first videotaping of his talks didn't take place until 1966, so we have no filmed record of any of his talks for the previous 30 years. The oldest audiotapes I've heard are from 1949, I believe. Food for thought.

This post was last updated by Ken D Mon, 05 Feb 2018.

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Mon, 05 Feb 2018 #226
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5018 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
Food for thought.

That's exactly what it is. Thinking about, discussing, opinionating, intellectualizing (not to be confused with intelligent discussion) everything K said is what you and several others want to do instead of seeing what K is pointing out. In that long very good quote you put up, Ken, about K discussing the "old brain" K spoke of leaving thought and seeing with "eyes" that are not rooted in the past, not an immediate interpretation by our conditioned mind, our consciousness. Seeing things fresh as they are happening.

Endless, mostly pointless discussion, about this detail or that detail hasn't and probably won't get anyone anywhere with what K was pointing out. What I wrote above about "letting go" of everything, letting go of your impressions, beliefs, opinions and conclusions about what you think K was saying seems to me to be imperative to seeing what K is pointing to.

Personally I have spent years and years doing this same "discussing" and thinking about what K is saying instead of clearing your, our, my thoughts and looking at what K is saying. I can attest to the fact that anything else is a a waste of time. I regret the time I have wasted doing this myself. I'm talking about most of the last 40 years of my life.

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Mon, 05 Feb 2018 #227
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1063 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
If the words don't accurately represent what was spoken, then the understanding is compromised

So are you saying that if what is said in court is not accurate written down the mis-action for why the person is in court took not place ?

Seems to me a very strange reasoning.

Fingerprints on something is not damaging this something.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Mon, 05 Feb 2018 #228
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 263 posts in this forum Offline

Who here can point to someone - and you're not allowed to point to yourself - who perfectly expresses what K expressed and in no way slants what K said or even slightly misrepresents him?

It seems to me extremely common to find someone describing or paraphrasing K in a way that is sort of correct, but a little off. It's common to find people who who get some aspects of K teachings but seem to miss others. Isn't this so?

So all that Ken is saying is that this kind of interpretative understanding, that is one step removed from what K directly said, exists even in some of the early transcriptions of K talks. Therefore, if you are interested in authentic, unfiltered K teaching, you have to be careful with those taken down in shorthand and recalled later, as well as those edited by Rajagopal and Lutyens.

These talks and books may reveal great insight to you. But be aware that they may not be 100% authentic.

And even in the precisely recorded talks, K may sometimes say things in very different, even contradictory ways, although perhaps pointing to the same underlying matter.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 05 Feb 2018.

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Mon, 05 Feb 2018 #229
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1063 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
http://www.thenearestshore.org/jkrishnamurti/in...

Thanks for giving this source, which is out of the complete works and based on only after the dead of Rajagopal available archive.

The same man who earned a livelihood by copywrites of the transcriptions and after the break with K. Went back to the theosofical society. So a bad man did a good work.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Mon, 05 Feb 2018.

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Mon, 05 Feb 2018 #230
Thumb_basquiat-boom-for-real-feature-001 Katy Alias United Kingdom 343 posts in this forum Offline

...They've got so much thing to say but when the rain falls it don't fall on one man's house - Bob Marley

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Tue, 06 Feb 2018 #231
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

idiot ? wrote:
It seems to me extremely common to find someone describing or paraphrasing K in a way that is sort of correct,

Yes, quite so. Most people appear to have, of varying degrees, a "verbal/intellectual" understanding of the things K spoke of. Lots of repeating things heard and lots of (edited) quotes of Krishnamurti. All this was going on during K's life also.

The Christian fanatics/believers I have met in my life express the notion that there was Divine intervention afoot whilst the word of God has gone through various editions and translations. Isn't that what is being expressed on this thread? Oh well yes, turns out we don't have K's exact words being preserved in the KFA vaults after all, but it's ok cuz kind of understanding stuff is sufficient.....argh!

This post was last updated by richard head (account deleted) Tue, 06 Feb 2018.

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Tue, 06 Feb 2018 #232
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Ken D wrote:
The only stainless books are Krishnamurti's Notebook and Krishnamurti's Journal,

I believe the book "Krishnamurti to himself" is transcribed from audio tapes K made speaking directly into a tape machine. As I recall there were a few "inaudible" words or phrases but I don't see how/why he would allow someone to edit something like that.

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Tue, 06 Feb 2018 #233
Thumb_k2 Ken D United States 40 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
I believe the book "Krishnamurti to himself" is transcribed from audio tapes K made speaking directly into a tape machine. As I recall there were a few "inaudible" words or phrases but I don't see how/why he would allow someone to edit something like that.

In the introduction, Lutyens says that "slight editing has been necessary for the sake of clarity." Again, we don't know what that means.

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Tue, 06 Feb 2018 #234
Thumb_k2 Ken D United States 40 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
So are you saying that if what is said in court is not accurate written down the mis-action for why the person is in court took not place ?

No, the court reporter is there to make certain that there is an accurate record of everything said in the courtroom. That's all.

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Tue, 06 Feb 2018 #235
Thumb_k2 Ken D United States 40 posts in this forum Offline

Another quote attributed to Krishnamurti is "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." In fact, there is no record of Krishnamurti ever having said this.

Over at K Ning, Kirsten has finally found the source of this perplexing statement attributed to Krishnamurti. The original source is Aldous Huxley. Here is what she wrote....

"Aldous Huxley in 'Brave New World Revisited':

Our "increasing mental sickness" may find expression in neurotic symptoms. These symptoms are conspicuous and extremely distressing. But "let us beware," says Dr. Fromm, "of defining mental hygiene as the prevention of symptoms. Symptoms as such are not our enemy, but our friend; where there are symptoms there is conflict, and conflict always indicates that the forces of life which strive for integration and happiness are still fighting." The really hopeless victims of mental illness are to be found among those who appear to be most normal. "Many of them are normal because they are so well adjusted to our mode of existence, because their human voice has been silenced so early in their lives, that they do not even struggle or suffer or develop symptoms as the neurotic does." They are normal not in what may be called the absolute sense of the word; they are normal only in relation to a profoundly abnormal society. Their perfect adjustment to that abnormal society is a measure of their mental sickness. These millions of abnormally normal people, living without fuss in a society to which, if they were fully human beings, they ought not to be adjusted, still cherish "the illusion of individuality," but in fact they have been to a great extent de-individualized. Their conformity is developing into something like uniformity. But "uniformity and freedom are incompatible. Uniformity and mental health are incompatible too.... Man is not made to be an automaton, and if he becomes one, the basis for mental health is destroyed."

https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/huxleya-bravenewwor...

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Tue, 06 Feb 2018 #236
Thumb_basquiat-boom-for-real-feature-001 Katy Alias United Kingdom 343 posts in this forum Offline

Thank you Ken and Kirsten for the above #235

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Thu, 08 Feb 2018 #237
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
I regret the time I have wasted doing this myself. I'm talking about most of the last 40 years of my life.

You know Jack, contrary to your belief, I have always admired and respected you. As well as all the other posters at Kinfonet past and present. Sometimes the human or fifth element divides us from our common interests and distracts us from what is fundamental in our lives. Krisnamurti continued to speak for over 60 years to remind us of that. Never regret that the itch he refused to scratch burns inside you. You may feel like you wasted that time of your life seeking an answer in seemingly the only way/path available to the mind, but I suggest that it is never a waste to "be aware" that there must be a different way for humanity to co-exist (relatively) conflict free. You/we are the reason K lived his life the way he did. Pointing to the unknowable, as he did, through the only media we can comprehend (knowledge) is an extremely difficult task. Yet he continued day after day till the moment life ended. Monumental gesture indeed. It is on us then to continue the journey of aloneness together. That means even though the egos clash, because that is the nature of egotism, we must not quit and give up. This does not mean to start a religious movement and worship and praise and what not, but to continue with what you have started here Jack. Undressing the ego with brutal self honesty, as you did in your post, must be a daily phenomenon if we are at all serious.

This post was last updated by richard head (account deleted) Thu, 08 Feb 2018.

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Thu, 08 Feb 2018 #238
Thumb_k2 Ken D United States 40 posts in this forum Offline

Final example of variations in talk given by Krishnamurti on February 8, 1948.
From the official archive page.....

http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teach...

"That which is the unknown cannot be thought about. What you think about is already the known. You can think only of the known. Thought moves from the known to the known, from the secure to the secure, but what is known is not the real.
So when you think about God, you think about what is known, and the known is in the net of time. The real can only come into being when the mind ceases to create, when the mind is still. This stillness is not a product of compulsion, discipline, or self-hypnosis. There is silence only when all problems have ceased, like the pool that becomes quiet when the breezes stop. So, the mind becomes quiet when the agitator, the thinker, ceases. For the thinker to come to an end, all thoughts which he manufactures must be thought out. It is vain to erect a barrier against thought. Every thought must be felt out and understood. When the mind is still, the reality, the indescribable, comes into being. You cannot invite it. To invite it is to know it, and what is known is not the real. The mind must be simple, unburdened of ideation and belief. For reality to come into being, do not seek it, but understand the causes that agitate the mind and heart. When the creator of problems ceases, then there is tranquillity. In that tranquillity, the blessing of the real comes."

From second source....
http://www.thenearestshore.org/jkrishnamurti/in...

"So, the unknown, that which is not created by the mind, cannot be formulated by the mind. That which is unknown cannot be thought about. The moment you think about the unknown, it is already the known. Surely you cannot think about the unknown, can you? You can think only about the known. Thought moves from the known to the known; and what is known is not reality, is it?
So, when you think and meditate, when you sit down and think about God, you only think about what is known, and what is known is in time; it is caught in the net of time, and is therefore not the real. Reality can come into being only when the mind is free from the net of time. When the mind ceases to create, there is creation. That is, the mind must be absolutely still, but not with an induced, a hypnotized stillness, which is merely a result. Trying to become still in order to experience reality is another form of escape. There is silence only when all problems have ceased; as the pool is quiet when the breeze stops, so the mind is naturally quiet when the agitator, the thinker, ceases. To put an end to the thinker, all the thoughts which he manufactures must be thought out. It is no good erecting a barrier, a resistance, against thought; because, thoughts must be felt out, the mind is still, reality, the indescribable, comes into being. You cannot invite it. To invite it, you must know it, and what is known is not the real. So, the mind must be simple, unburdened by belief, by ideation; and when there is stillness, when there is no desire, no longing, when the mind is absolutely quiet with a stillness that is not induced, then reality comes. And that truth, that reality, is the only transforming agent; it is the only factor that brings a fundamental, radical revolution in existence, in our daily life. And to find that reality is not to seek it, but to understand the factors that agitate the mind, that disturb the mind itself. Then the mind is simple, quiet, still. In that stillness the unknown, the unknowable, comes into being; and when that happens, there is a blessing."

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Sat, 10 Feb 2018 #239
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5018 posts in this forum Offline

Richard/Randall that was an interesting post,#237. And if I understand you correctly, and I may not, you think I have given up something. Maybe you're right. Maybe what has been given up is thinking I can reason, intellectualize, think my way to more clearly understanding what K pointed out. It seems evident that thought is the problem and not the solution.

What thought can do is see all the obstacles it has created to understanding. One of those obstacles is thought itself. I believe K said on many occasions that by negating the false what remains is the "truth". "You" can never know the truth and certainly not give the truth to someone else. Much of what K spoke of was describing what doesn't exist. There is no "you", no center, no ego. What we have always believed is a tangible, existing entity that has a fragment, a soul, that lives forever is just a collection of experiences and knowledge. Physically we need the conditioned brain to go about our daily activities.

But psychologically this belief that we are separate and individual from the rest of humanity is an illusion that is literally destroying the planet we live on. Can we just observe and see that our psychological conditioning, psychological programming, is causing so many problems for the world of which we all are a part? It doesn't look good from where I'm sitting.

It's much easier and much more fun, and interesting, to intellectualize, theorize and discuss at great length than it is to just be attentive to the ramblings of our thoughts. And this is probably why we continue to repeat the same things to each other over and over again.

Most of us have made things K pointed out so much more difficult by thinking too much about them. An example: The observer is the observed is a simple fact that doesn't need to be pondered over endlessly.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Tue, 13 Feb 2018.

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Sat, 17 Feb 2018 #240
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
It's much easier and much more fun, and interesting, to intellectualize, theorize and discuss at great length than it is to just be attentive to the ramblings of our thoughts. And this is probably why we continue to repeat the same things to each other over and over again.

You know, when I point things like this out, over and over, I get a punch in the nose! ;)

Apparently you carry more credibility and so, thank you for pointing all this out to us so that we can not say that we have not heard/seen who we really are and what we are really doing.

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