Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Why don't people interested in K.'s teaching visit and post in all three forums?


Displaying posts 91 - 120 of 123 in total
Wed, 20 Sep 2017 #91
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
And you like to pile on guys that others are already "attacking".

Funny how you feel "attacked" and "piled on" by people simply pointing to the factual absurdities of your behavior Jack. I don't recall you denying what was pointed out.

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Wed, 20 Sep 2017 #92
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
You are such a whinny sissy.

I'm certain that this is a forum guideline violation of some kind. Why don't you take a "chill pill" brother?

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Wed, 20 Sep 2017 #93
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4916 posts in this forum Offline

What are you doing here Richard besides running your mouth and telling others who they are or what they are doing wrong in their understandings of what K pointed out?

You are yet another self styled expert on K who is here to straighten the rest of us out and put us on the right path. As I have already pointed out all this has been done before and it didn't end well for the perpetrators.

Rules. That was Jean's last, and sometimes first, resort when he couldn't think of anything intelligent to say. "You broke the rules".

Instead of questioning other's understanding of K why not question your own faux understandings, opinions and conditioning?

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Wed, 20 Sep 2017 #94
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4916 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Sorry Tom, there is no insight into "how one might free oneself".
There is only the Insight of having "done" it.

This, by the way, is complete gibberish. Insight is the present. You have made it the past. So you think there is a "you" that has "done it" (whatever that means) and insight is the realization of having "done it"?

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Wed, 20 Sep 2017 #95
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4916 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
I'm sorry Tom really, but there is no more than that. We must first realize what we are doing, before we will be able to not do it.

You still seem to think that there is a center which is the accumulation of knowledge and experience that is "doing or not doing" something. When you see that this center is an illusion that doesn't exist in fact then you may begin to see what K was trying to point out.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Wed, 20 Sep 2017.

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Wed, 20 Sep 2017 #96
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
You are yet another self styled expert on K who is here to straighten the rest of us out and put us on the right path.

You say this, then go on to use the authority of your belief to straighten me out about what K means when he says this or that, incredible.

You are the self styled authority on all things K and you use bullying tactics to enforce your insanity.

And in any case, I have never attempted to put anyone on any kind of path. Pointing to the inadequacy of one method/system/path (thought) does not imply any other direction.

This post was last updated by richard head Wed, 20 Sep 2017.

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Thu, 21 Sep 2017 #97
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4916 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:
you are free to share your insight or understanding as to how one might free oneself from the trap of time

Sorry Tom, there is no insight into "how one might free oneself".
There is only the Insight of having "done" it.

Tom asked a legitimate question. Your answer, as I have already pointed out, is complete nonsense and shows an almost shocking lack of understanding of what insight is and of how K used the word. Of course one might have an insight into what freeing the self is. What does it mean to have an "insight", which is clearly the present, on something in the past?

What I was trying to point out to you above to which you replied to with your usual sarcastic response is that you should find out what K was pointing out for yourself before offering your constant advice to others. And this thread alone is full of examples of you doing just that.

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Thu, 21 Sep 2017 #98
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Tom asked a legitimate question.

What question? All I see is being invited to do what you claim cannot be done. I am not at all therefore surprised that my response eludes your understanding.

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Thu, 21 Sep 2017 #99
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4916 posts in this forum Offline

Richard are you aware that your above response is not to what I wrote in my response #97. Also within my response is what Tom wrote. Your response to Tom that I quoted is what my post was about. You don't understand what "insight" means. Don't take my word for what it means. Find out for yourself by checking the dictionary and/or seeing how K uses the word.

You don't seem to understand that insight is not about the past. Your statement using the word insight is ridiculous. It has no meaning. That is what my post was about. Yet your reply was about something entirely different. Something we were not discussing. Did you not understand my post above?

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Thu, 21 Sep 2017 #100
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3072 posts in this forum Offline

This is not getting us anywhere I don't think. We are not 'taking a journey together', as K spoke about, but talking AT each other. I do feel Richard has misunderstood some of what I was trying to say, and I probably misunderstood him. I think Richard was simply trying to say 'there's no 'how'' in one of the above exchanges, and I didn't catch that. But he often does deny that anyone here can have any insight into the teaching...,anyone other than himself that is. And he claims all we're sharing is knowledge/information...all of us but himself. So where should we go from here? Maybe just throw in the towel as most have apparently already done? I don't know why this forum has basically died lately.

Let it Be

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Thu, 21 Sep 2017 #101
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 589 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
We are not 'taking a journey together', as K spoke about, but talking AT each other.

Hi Tom and all. I think a basic principle in "taking a journey together" here is to accept from the outset that none of us are experts in the teachings and that we are all equals who are open and prepared to listen and learn. Why is this so difficult?

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Thu, 21 Sep 2017 #102
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3072 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Why is this so difficult?

It's kind of difficult if one of us claims to have had THE big insight and is transformed, while telling the rest of us that we are just wasting our time and might as well be discussing the Yankee or Mets game.

Let it Be

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Thu, 21 Sep 2017 #103
Thumb_77 Ken D United States 20 posts in this forum Offline

Speaking of Yankees.....

This post was last updated by Ken D Thu, 21 Sep 2017.

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Fri, 22 Sep 2017 #104
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 226 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
It's kind of difficult if one of us claims to have had THE big insight and is transformed, while telling the rest of us that we are just wasting our time and might as well be discussing the Yankee or Mets game.

Ironically, that's pretty close to a description of K. Although he didn't tell us we were wasting our time, he did say there was no method and that even choice or intention miss the mark. He said that he wanted to set man unconditionally free. But he insisted there was no way.

We dismiss arrogant people who post here. Yet we don't find K maddening. Why? Because he paints such a pretty picture? Then he dies saying that no one has reached it.

Do we feel that we have transformed somewhat? And if so, is that real transformation or just the ego fooling itself?

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Sat, 23 Sep 2017 #105
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3072 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Although he didn't tell us we were wasting our time, he did say there was no method and that even choice or intention miss the mark. He said that he wanted to set man unconditionally free. But he insisted there was no way.

There is 'no way'....not through effort, will or intention. Right, idiot ? He always maintained that. Yet he still said, "It's up to you sirs. It's up to you to change." How maddening is that contradiction! Maddening if one is foolish enough to let it into one's head. It's quite possible that there may in fact be something like spontaneous mutations in consciousness that occur. Or perhaps someone like K was born free of the 'self'. Yet to make an effort to change onself? K says you can't do it through effort...yet..."Do it sir!"

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Sat, 23 Sep 2017.

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Sun, 24 Sep 2017 #106
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
It's kind of difficult if one of us

The difficulties in the use of knowledge/information/thought as path/method/system in pursuits that do not fit it's capacities, is not all R's fault Tom. ;)

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Sun, 24 Sep 2017 #107
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
There is 'no way'....not through effort, will or intention.

"There is 'no way' (path)...(specifically) not through effort (which is), will or (and) intention."

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Sun, 24 Sep 2017 #108
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3072 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
not through effort (which is), will or (and) intention."

Which are based in thought, which is all we know. Our whole life is based upon thought.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Sun, 24 Sep 2017.

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Sun, 24 Sep 2017 #109
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Our whole life is based upon thought.

So all we have are wonderful ideas about our activities? Dodgers-Yankees....that's all? Varying forms of entertainment, the greater (which includes discussing Krishnamurti) and lesser, but forms of entertainment/escape none the less, right?

But we still hold out hope that we are really doing things the right way. If only that "R" character would just get in line these interactions are bound to break through at some point, no?

This post was last updated by richard head Sun, 24 Sep 2017.

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Sun, 24 Sep 2017 #110
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
accept from the outset that none of us are experts in the teachings and that we are all equals who are open and prepared to listen and learn

Certainly as an ideal Sean, this is wonderful sentiment. The issue is that most every human mind comes to the table accepting/relying on the authority/expertise of it's own thinking. Few, if any, are open and prepared to listen and learn. But please, carry on.

This post was last updated by richard head Sun, 24 Sep 2017.

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Sun, 24 Sep 2017 #111
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3072 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
So all we have are wonderful ideas about our activities?

Right, both so called good and so called bad activities.

richard head wrote:
But we still hold out hope that we are really doing things the right way

Right we hold on to the good ideas, hoping to get somewhere. Hoping to 'observe' ourselves free of the observer or to 'think together'. We DO cling to a lot of ideas we got from reading ...or listening to... K. That's not to say there is no insight into the 'teaching'. Or no actual looking together here....ever.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Mon, 25 Sep 2017.

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Tue, 26 Sep 2017 #112
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
That's not to say there is no insight into the 'teaching'.

Sorry Tom, we can't have our cake and eat it too. If we say that all we hold are ideas, you said it, K has said it, then we cannot go back and hold hope for insight.

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Tue, 26 Sep 2017 #113
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Right, both so called good and so called bad activities.

Alright, but if we look past "good-bad" and understand the complete domination of ideas in our life and relationship to people places and things, maybe we can find our way through.

Good/bad right/wrong accept/reject always derail the exploration, not "R". K called this phenomenon "choice", others have called it "duality".

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Tue, 26 Sep 2017 #114
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3072 posts in this forum Offline

If we say that all we hold are ideas, you said it, K has said it, then we cannot go back and hold hope for insight

Who said anything about hope?

Let it Be

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Wed, 27 Sep 2017 #115
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 589 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Certainly as an ideal Sean, this is wonderful sentiment. The issue is that most every human mind comes to the table accepting/relying on the authority/expertise of it's own thinking. Few, if any, are open and prepared to listen and learn. But please, carry on.

Hi Richard and all. Yes Richard, I'm sure what you say here is true. However, we can only take responsibility for ourselves. I think the question is whether you or I can come to the table with an open heart and mind, listen and learn. K seemed to be able to do this and spent his life pointing the way for us to also do this. Are we ever free of the authority of our own thoughts?

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Wed, 27 Sep 2017 #116
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Are we ever free of the authority of our own thoughts?

What a great question Sean. Is there any answer? Or only deep inner questioning/exploration?

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Wed, 27 Sep 2017 #117
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Who said anything about hope?

The last two sentences of your post #111, is that.

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Wed, 27 Sep 2017 #118
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3072 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

Who said anything about hope?
The last two sentences of your post #111, is that.

No one has ever had insight when reading K...or listening to one of the talks? Hoping for insight and having insight into oneself (thru the teaching or otherwise) are not the same action?

Let it Be

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Wed, 27 Sep 2017 #119
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
No one has ever had insight when reading K...or listening to one of the talks?

Intellectual/verbal "insight" is not what k was talking for 60 years about.

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Wed, 27 Sep 2017 #120
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 248 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Hoping for insight and having insight into oneself (thru the teaching or otherwise) are not the same action?

One....is "what is". The other....is "what should be".

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