Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Krishnamurti & friendship


Displaying posts 31 - 51 of 51 in total
Sat, 19 Aug 2017 #31
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3063 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:

Tom Paine wrote:

And what are you using in this discussion but the authority of your thought/thinking/knowledge/experience, pray tell?
Sorry Tom, this is not a serious response. All exploration must end at that point.

I'm sorry as well, that you don't take it seriously. Your mind works the same as others here, as far as I can tell. Well, you can take it or leave it. It was an honest response.

Let it Be

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Sat, 19 Aug 2017 #32
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3063 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
You do the math.

No. I'm not measuring people. I was attempting to reply to your posts in all honesty, but I'm afraid you're jumping to some crazy conclusions based upon your experience/knowledge. We can't seem to have any meaningful discussions here because you take nothing and no one seriously but yourself and your own ideas/experience/knowledge. What you accuse everyone else of doing, you're guilty of yourself. The mind has to be free of all that to have what K and Bohm used to refer to as a dialog...or 'taking a journey together'... not one leading and another following. Perhaps I'm reading you totally wrong, who knows. I guess it's possible, but I don't see any possibility of us having a meaningful discussion here so I'll sign off.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Sat, 19 Aug 2017.

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Sat, 19 Aug 2017 #33
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 175 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Your mind works the same as others here, as far as I can tell.

In exploration, how can your curiosity about what's in my mind, be a serious pursuit? It is simply adding more or less limited information/knowledge to the dialogue. A serious response would address what was posted, directly.

I'm not trying to be a dick head, I'm trying to keep the discussion honest.

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Sat, 19 Aug 2017 #34
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 175 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
What you accuse everyone else of doing, you're guilty of yourself.

From what point of reference/authority do you make this statement?

What I am doing is asking uncomforting questions. Challenging the introduction of unnecessary distractions/escape. The entire post you made is/does distract from the fact. Like it or don't. Stay or go, entirely up to you.

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Sat, 19 Aug 2017 #35
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 175 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
not one leading and another following.

This entire post, you are referencing limited knowledge/information/authority, K and Bohm, if this then that....

All of this is distraction/escape. Rather than address what is being said (in my posts) you are challenging the person saying it. I have not provided any do this or that postings. Sorry we could not go further but I will not accept your assertions that I am doing anything to derail serious discussion.

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Sat, 19 Aug 2017 #36
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 175 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
We can't seem to have any meaningful discussions here because you take nothing and no one serious

Why these constant personal attacks Tom? If you don't like the things I post, simply ignore them. R Head said this, R Head said that......and that is why discussion gets sidetracked.....Yikes. Seriously, I don't have that much power over the situation.

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Sat, 19 Aug 2017 #37
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3063 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
The entire post you made is/does distract from the fact. Like it or don't. Stay or go, entirely up to you.

I shared what to me was seen as a fact...not second hand knowledge. You say it's just more knowledge/information. In your mind, you're obviously right and I'm just imagining ...in your mind. So I ended the discussion. I'm not interested in 'I'm right and you're wrong'...'I know and you don't know'. Either we are taking each other seriously, and are seriously considering what the other is trying to say, or I'm not interested in continuing.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Sat, 19 Aug 2017.

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Sun, 20 Aug 2017 #38
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4898 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
I'm not interested in 'I'm right and you're wrong'...'I know and you don't know'. Either we are taking each other seriously, and are seriously considering what the other is trying to say, or I'm not interested in continuing.

I'm not trying to pile on here but I agree with you. You have stated your case very clearly. The reason I am even bothering to comment is because I had to break off conversation with Richard for the same reasons you stated above.

He is quick to condemn others based on his own knowledge, his own beliefs or opinions, or conditioning which may or may not be accurate. He's not the only one.

Many people on here, without realizing it maybe, are making what K said into a dogma. A set of rules where you can do this but don't do that because in their minds K, somewhere at sometime, said to do this or don't do that.

K didn't lay down any rules. Observe yourself, your actions your thinking without judgment, without reacting all the time, without trying to change or don't observe yourself and all of the rest of it. But let others see themselves for who they are without being constantly nit-picked or telling others what they should do or say or think.

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Sun, 20 Aug 2017 #39
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4898 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
but I will not accept your assertions that I am doing anything to derail serious discussion.

But you actually are doing things to derail serious discussion just as I pointed out to you both on the forum and in the personal messages you sent to me attacking this or that about something I said. Maybe you might find it helpful if you spent more time observing yourself and your reactions to others rather than telling others what they are doing "wrong".

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Sun, 20 Aug 2017 #40
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 175 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
the personal messages you sent to me attacking this or that about something I said

Good grief. Another totally false accusation.

This post was last updated by richard head Sun, 20 Aug 2017.

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Sun, 20 Aug 2017 #41
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 175 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
I don't see any possibility of us having a meaningful discussion here so I'll sign off.

Nor do I, take care.

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Sun, 20 Aug 2017 #42
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4898 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Good grief. Another totally false accusation.

Not at all. But you apparently see yourself as the expert. You are right and everyone else is wrong. That should be your first clue.

Do you understand how experience and knowledge, which are fragmented and incomplete, are the basis for our opinions and beliefs?

K suggested that we take opinions, beliefs, whatever and follow them right to the core of their roots or beginnings. It's arduous to do that but it can reveal quite a bit about our thinking process. And by extension it can reveal quite a bit about who we are since we are basically a collection of our experiences and knowledge, our conditioning.

We can't do this for anyone else. We can only observe our own conditioning, thinking process deeply to it's roots.

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Sun, 20 Aug 2017 #43
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 209 posts in this forum Offline

It is interesting that Mr. Richard Head arrived almost immediately after Mr. Jean Gatti left.

But what do I know? The disturber is the disturbed.

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Sun, 20 Aug 2017 #44
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4898 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
It is interesting that Mr. Richard Head arrived almost immediately after Mr. Jean Gatti left.

Yes I've had similar thoughts and have even made a similar comment. You have to give him credit for picking an appropriate name though.

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Sun, 20 Aug 2017 #45
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3063 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
You have to give him credit for picking an appropriate name though.

No, Rick isn't Jean, I'm fairly certain. I won't reveal his true identity in case he was banned under his previous name, but I know his style of writing...and sense of humor. The new alias is pretty funny, I have to say :)

Let it Be

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Sun, 20 Aug 2017 #46
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 175 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
I won't reveal his true identity in case he was banned under his previous name,

Thanks Tom, but I was not banned.

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Sun, 20 Aug 2017 #47
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 175 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
The disturber is the disturbed.

Are you disturbed by what I post? Good.

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Mon, 21 Aug 2017 #48
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4898 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Are you disturbed by what I post? Good.

Being bored to death is also a disturbance. The "provocateur" thing has already been done here, actually done to death. Do we really have to do another round of it?

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Mon, 21 Aug 2017 #49
Thumb_de4 Dan McDermott United States 1213 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Do we really have to do another round of it?

I think John R. a while back referred to it as the "gladiator" approach to K.'s teaching. :)

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Mon, 21 Aug 2017 #50
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3063 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
I think John R. a while back referred to it as the "gladiator" approach to K.'s teaching. :)

Ah yes, the good old days of Jean going at it against the tag team of Paul and randall ;) Like a three ring circus! Very little to do with 'the teaching' however.

Let it Be

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Wed, 23 Aug 2017 #51
Thumb_9204480_n03 French Touch France 45 posts in this forum Offline

Thank you for this friendly discussion on friendship...

Jake I'm 57. Friendship does not mean a lot to me, but I have no reason not to be friendly with everyone available for that.
Being alone is important for me and not a chore since a few years.

I've been listening a French podcast on Love. And their conclusion was that friendship was even more important.

I was wondering why they had to conclude like, then I posted here.

This post was last updated by French Touch Wed, 23 Aug 2017.

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