Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Right Meditation is very effective...


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Mon, 07 Aug 2017 #1
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 226 posts in this forum Offline

Krishnamurti Quote of the Day, Ojai, California - 7th Public Talk 1945:

Right meditation is very effective in freeing the mind-heart from its self-enclosing process. The open and hidden layers of consciousness are the result of the past, of accumulation, of centuries of education, and surely such an educated, conditioned mind cannot be vulnerable to the Real. Occasionally, in the still silence after the storm of conflict and pain, there comes inexpressible beauty and joy; it is not the result of the storm but of the cessation of conflict. The mind-heart must be passively still for the creative being of the Real.

Most of us approach K teaching somewhat intellectually, with the thinking mind. But in my view, you will never, ever get to the heart of K that way. Only in real meditation is there the possibility of discovery.

One of Clive Elwell's post in his Quiet Space forum was interesting. He said he wanted to end the self. He said it seemed like the only thing that had real significance.

Can the self end itself? Can thought stop itself? It can certainly begin to see its operations in the mirror of relationship. And when the violence of those relations becomes clear, how "I" seek to dominate, or submit, or engage in all kinds of twisting and and writhing to boost "myself," there is finally a yearning for rest, for stopping all that.

And so investigating meditation becomes vital. But right away there's a problem. Because in meditation there is no how. Any method becomes itself a thought, a distraction. And according to K, there's not even any volition because any choice again is a thought, a moving away from the actual. So the importance of a silent, open heart is seen but it doesn't just spontaneously happen, the brain keeps going like crazy, and you throw up your hands. You give up. Because any trying is not real meditation. And real meditation just doesn't seem to happen.

But I say, if you're in thought anyway, if you are choosing, doing this and that for a reason anyway, then you can choose to sit down in a quiet place and see what happens in meditation. Just watch thoughts stream by. Let things settle. See what happens. And do this a lot.

K did. And when he was younger he did it deliberately. Only later did it just happen.

You begin where you are. What is. And discover.

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Tue, 08 Aug 2017 #2
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 587 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
But I say, if you're in thought anyway, if you are choosing, doing this and that for a reason anyway, then you can choose to sit down in a quiet place and see what happens in meditation. Just watch thoughts stream by. Let things settle. See what happens. And do this a lot.

Hello idiot? and all. Well, this seems to make a lot of sense to me. I like the "do this a lot" part as I actually don't do this a lot.

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Tue, 08 Aug 2017 #3
Thumb_3206 Peter Sharpe United States 34 posts in this forum Offline

The baseball playoffs are gonna be great!

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Tue, 08 Aug 2017 #4
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 587 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Sharpe wrote:
The baseball playoffs are gonna be great!

Once he expressed "a strong desire" to watch a World Series game. *

A Brief Biographical-Character Sketch of Jiddu Krishnamurti

Alan Gullette
Spring 1980


  • (According to an article in Time, vol. 97, no. 63, June 7, 1971, p. 63, entitled "The Durable Avatar.")

This post was last updated by Sean Hen Tue, 08 Aug 2017.

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Tue, 08 Aug 2017 #5
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 245 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Sharpe wrote:
The baseball playoffs are gonna be great!

Go Dodgers!

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Tue, 08 Aug 2017 #6
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 245 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
I actually don't do this a lot.

Why not Sean? Maybe the QOTD from a few days back might be instructional?

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Wed, 09 Aug 2017 #7
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 587 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Why not Sean? Maybe the QOTD from a few days back might be instructional?

Hello again Richard. I'm confident that the QOTD from a few days back, whatever it was, was indeed "instructional". As to why I don't often sit down in a quiet place and see what happens, I think this is a question worth asking so thanks for doing so.

The answer is that I'm occupied doing other things. I would admit that some of these things, like reading about football, is time which could be spent much more fruitfully. I would say that I do not have the importance of sitting in silence sufficiently clear, otherwise I would certainly do it more often. However, just recognising this fact might well lead me to experiment more with this.

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Wed, 09 Aug 2017 #8
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 245 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
The answer is that I'm occupied doing other things.

We all set our own priorities Sean.

I'll paraphrase what K was saying. He's saying we as a species are "lazy", psychologically speaking. We wish to be spoon fed sugar coated information to turn our sick minds into something somewhat less insane. We want to read or be told something "unknown" so that it can become known and therefore useful in some capacity. But the "unknowable" can not be known, by definition. Yet we continue on over and over spoon-feeding each other the rehashed known. We then vomit it up and start all over again. Curious, eh?

This post was last updated by richard head Wed, 09 Aug 2017.

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Wed, 09 Aug 2017 #9
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 245 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
I would say that I do not have the importance of sitting in silence sufficiently clear, otherwise I would certainly do it more often

When you are terribly sad, or angry, the importance will become sufficiently clear, I promise. :)

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Wed, 09 Aug 2017 #10
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3072 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Sean Hen wrote:

I would say that I do not have the importance of sitting in silence sufficiently clear, otherwise I would certainly do it more often
When you are terribly sad, or angry, the importance will become sufficiently clear, I promise. :)

And as long as things are going reasonably well, it will be business as usual...food, tv, movies, sports, sex, money, and all the rest that humans live for. Not that K didn't enjoy all or some of those activities at times. Well, likely not money....but the rest. He didn't need money....he could shop for expensive clothes with other people's money.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Wed, 09 Aug 2017.

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Thu, 10 Aug 2017 #11
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 245 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
He didn't need money....he could shop for expensive clothes with other people's money.

Nice situation, if one is lucky enough....

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Thu, 10 Aug 2017 #12
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 587 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
When you are terribly sad, or angry, the importance will become sufficiently clear, I promise. :)

Hi Richard, Tom and all. Probably all human beings experience extreme sadness or anger at some point in their lives. At these points I would say that yes, there can be a sharpening of awareness and consciousness. We all know that we are going to die one day but this huge reality does not seem to be at the forefront of our consciousness. Krishnamurti seemed to able to constantly die to the past and live completely in the present. We are unable to do this as far as I can see.

This post was last updated by Sean Hen Thu, 10 Aug 2017.

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Thu, 10 Aug 2017 #13
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3072 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Nice situation, if one is lucky enough....

Even better might be having one's own gourmet cook ;) K's former cook at Ojai wrote a book....Kitchen Chronicles, I think it's called. They ate very well! No meat, of course.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Thu, 10 Aug 2017.

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Thu, 10 Aug 2017 #14
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4914 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Even better might be having one's own gourmet cook ;) K's former cook at Ojai wrote a book....Kitchen Chronicles, I think it's called. They ate very well! No meat, of course.

OK, I don't know what the point is in perpetuating the "cushy" life myth that K supposedly lead. Yes, he bought very good clothes at Huntsman's in Savile Row and other fine clothing shops. Like all of us K needed to have the basics; food, shelter and clothing. He did everything, including dressing, with perfection. He worked hard. Travelling especially was particularly grueling for him in the last years of his life. He moved about every three months or less. From Ojai, to England to Switzerland, to England again to India, to England and then to Ojai. There were often other stops. If you have ever travelled a lot you know how tiring this can be. K certainly earned what he got and was not leaching from others as some of these comments insinuate.

And about Michael Krohnen's cooking. He was trained by Allen Hooker who, along with his wife Helen, founded, owned and ran the wonderful restaurant in Meiner's Oaks (adjacent to Ojai and where the Oak Grove is located) called The Ranch House.

Michael was certainly a good cook although he no longer does that as a job. He does other things for the KFA but not cooking. The thing was that many people found the food to be a little rich. Lot's of creamy, cheesy food and of course totally vegetarian. Vegetarian is good. I think you can still fine a cookbook written by Alan Hooker.

It wasn't "fancy" expensive food. Just good food with fresh ingredients that Michael would buy himself or pick from the garden that they had for awhile at the Oak Grove in the late '70's and early 80's.

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Thu, 10 Aug 2017 #15
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 245 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
OK, I don't know what the point is in perpetuating the "cushy" life myth that K supposedly lead.

Please Mr. Pine, no one is criticizing K's lifestyle. From what I have seen here, most people admire and respect all aspects of the phenomenon called Krishnamurti, Jiddu. But the fact is, he led a life of luxury at the expense of his wealthy admirers. Traveling the world first class is not hard work sir. (in his later years, admittedly yes, somewhat difficult for him). It is an avocation most of us would aspire towards. Where can I apply? :o)

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Thu, 10 Aug 2017 #16
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 245 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
No meat, of course.

As I recall from one biography that his aversion to meat (the human body can digest the stuff after all) was less about harmful effects to the body and more about the piss poor treatment of the animals in the flesh industry.

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Thu, 10 Aug 2017 #17
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3072 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
From what I have seen here, most people admire and respect all aspects of the phenomenon called Krishnamurti, Jiddu.

Yes.

richard head wrote:
But the fact is, he led a life of luxury at the expense of his wealthy admirers

Indeed. But my post about the cook was pure envy on my part....no judgment of K was intended.

Let it Be

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Thu, 10 Aug 2017 #18
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3072 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
As I recall from one biography that his aversion to meat (the human body can digest the stuff after all) was less about harmful effects to the body and more about the piss poor treatment of the animals in the flesh industry.

I recall where he said he didn't eat meat out of compassion. He didn't elaborate in that particular quote.

Let it Be

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Thu, 10 Aug 2017 #19
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3072 posts in this forum Offline

I know it's off topic, but since I mentioned the book written by K's cook I thought I'd share this interesting little excerpt I came across the other day:

I stayed in California and was busy at the Oak Grove School, but I missed attending the talks in the various locations. In September, 1978 we started receiving circular letters from him. These were later published as Letters to the Schools. In pointed and succinct style, they focused the attention of both teachers and students on the serious questions of life. They averaged between one and two pages in length, encapsulating the essence of his teaching and the meaning of education as he envisioned it. In them, he often employed rather startling phrases, such as ‘ideals corrupt the mind’; ‘leisure implies a mind that has infinite time to observe’; ‘earning a livelihood is the denial of living’; ‘God is disorder’; ‘we live by words and words become our prison’; and so on. Although they were written in an impersonal tone and addressed to the hundreds of staff and thousands of students at the schools in Ojai, Canada, England and India, I felt they were speaking to me personally. As we received them for several years, they became the basis for many animated staff discussions about the significance of education and our role in it.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Thu, 10 Aug 2017.

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Thu, 10 Aug 2017 #20
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4914 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Please Mr. Pine, no one is criticizing K's lifestyle. From what I have seen here, most people admire and respect all aspects of the phenomenon called Krishnamurti, Jiddu.

I've been on this forum for a long time. Too long. And people do, at regular intervals it seems, criticize K for his life style. He did work. He gave talks throughout the world for 60 plus years and he was entitled to clothes, food, shelter and transportation. And actually he didn't start flying first class until Mary Z starting insisting on it. Know your facts before you speak.

richard head wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:
He didn't need money....he could shop for expensive clothes with other people's money.

Tom you shop for clothes don't you? And I assume you work for the money you use to shop with. It's true that K didn't carry money but he earned the money. It's just that the people with him did pay for things for him. But to say "other peoples' money" sounds sort of insulting. I know you probably didn't mean it that way but nevertheless....

You know K certainly didn't have an easy life when he was growing up according to what has been written in Mary Lutyen's biographies. Why begrudge the poor "chap", as he often referred to himself, a good life in his later years? The joy of his life I don't think was shopping at Huntsman's or buying other things or eating Michael's food (which by the way was just at lunch), I think it came from tapping into the energy of the Universe which he described as limitless.

You could feel the energy emanating from him. More on some occasions than others. It was exceptional. Whenever I smell a fresh orange being peeled I think of K and that feeling of being in close proximity to where he was. When I first saw him in 1978 the whole Ojai Valley was awash in the aroma of orange blossoms. And of course there was a small grove which he had planted when he was a young man that lays between the Pine Cottage and Arya Vihara. Many of us would pick an orange on the walk up to Pine Cottage for one of those small, private talks with the teachers and parents and a few people like me who had no status but were tolerated.

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Thu, 10 Aug 2017 #21
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 245 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Why begrudge the poor "chap", as he often referred to himself, a good life in his later years?

You are defending a position that no one is attacking sir.

At what age were K and Nitya taken into theosophy (start of the good life)? Teen agers as I recall (maybe younger) The vast majority of his life was spent affluently. Relate facts accurately if you will sir.

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Fri, 11 Aug 2017 #22
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4914 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
You are defending a position that no one is attacking sir.

Do me a favor and drop the "sir" bullshit. It's affected speech, patronizing and it makes you sound like an idiot.

Trouble is Dick you consistently don't know what you are talking about. Being taken into the Theosophist society was the beginning of their real trouble. They often expressed a desire to be left alone, to return to India. K hated the adulation, the followers and the general bullshit beliefs of masters, the ranking of the members, the phony spiritual experiences and so on.

If you are going to pose as an expert on K and Nitya at least read and understand what Mary Lutyens wrote in her biographies. I take the biographies to be accurate because K was aware of what Mary L was writing and he didn't object.

Now Dick unless or until you come up with something intelligent to discuss I'm out of this conversation. It's boring almost beyond endurance.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Fri, 11 Aug 2017.

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Fri, 11 Aug 2017 #23
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 245 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
drop the "sir" bullshit.

Your post is overly rude and personal. I've a mind to report you for various violations of the rules of engagement. But I won't.

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