Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Krishnamurti and the Masters


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Mon, 15 May 2017 #1
Thumb_photo saurab marjara India 58 posts in this forum Offline

At a certain stage in the initiation process a pupil has the right to ask a boon from the Master, such a request is normally granted. K asked for the life of his brother Nityananda, who at the time was dying of tuberculosis. Unfortunately, Nityananda had already agreed to endure his terminal illness so that a karmic debt could be cleared in preparation for a fortunate rebirth; in such circumstances the boon could not be granted. Apparently K. could not accept this decision with equanimity and became very antagonistic towards the Masters, resulting in what is so well documented about the change in his direction accompanied by many iconoclastic comments,some even suggesting that the Masters are irrelevant.

Taken from http://www.alpheus.org/html/articles/krishnamur...

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Mon, 15 May 2017 #2
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1020 posts in this forum Offline

If you loved someone or loved one and the other indicates that it is not served by that love because it is too clumsy or glorious and you can not rest, there are thousands of reasons to disqualify the other with faith , hope and denigrating gossip of hearing statements and interpretations of your own judgment.

The theosophists and their descendants could bring unconventional love into practice by silencing their unanswered love.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Mon, 15 May 2017 #3
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 184 posts in this forum Offline

Krishnamurti was raised by the Theosophists to astral travel to the Masters in his dreams and learn from them. The Masters and a lot of Theosophical teachings are supernatural baloney. Blavatsky made this stuff up. Unfortunately, K never unequivocally repudiated the Masters. Doing so would have really been a statement of freedom from conditioning. So even now there are people convinced that K's body provided a vessel that one or more Masters spoke through. Others remain convinced of the validity of the Masters existence. It's a bunch of nonsense.

Decades ago when I was young and first discovered K teaching, I was struck how free of extraneous baggage they were, how forthright. Well, there is some unnecessary baggage and it includes the Masters.

On the other hand, it is interesting to consider what K carried over from his Theosophical upbringing into his mature teachings. Many think he brought nothing over, that his teachings are a complete revolution with no connection to Theosophy at all. That is also wrong. Leadbeater and Besant did have an impact on him and his teaching. Even K's famous, "Investigate for yourself" may have come from instruction Leadbeater gave to K for how to explore the various esoteric occult Theosophical teachings. But to say so is heresy to many K-interested people. To them, K is completely free of all conditioning, including Theosophical conditioning. He certainly wasn't influenced by his primary spiritual teacher, Leadbeater, with whom he spent well over a decade. No, Leadbeater was either a masturbation advocate or a pederast or both and so he couldn't have had any positive influence on K. But he actually very likely did have an influence on K. For example, a young K and Nitya declared they loved oranges or some such food. Leadbeater ordered that they be served oranges every day for a year. They soon grew quite sick of oranges and had a very concrete lesson on attachment.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 15 May 2017.

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Mon, 15 May 2017 #4
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 50 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
, K never unequivocally repudiated the Masters.

Can you imagine the violence anger that might have occurred within some or many within theosophy? K subtly included theosophy within the scope of "organized religious movements" which allowed him to repudiate without directly criticizing or offending anyone everyone.

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Tue, 16 May 2017 #5
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 184 posts in this forum Offline

richard head wrote:
Can you imagine the violence anger that might have occurred within some or many within theosophy? K subtly included theosophy within the scope of "organized religious movements" which allowed him to repudiate without directly criticizing or offending anyone everyone.

K had no problem condemning nationalism. Do you realize how much that might anger people who are fervently patriotic? And as you said, K clearly pointed out how organized religion divides people. Again this might offend or anger certain religious people.

He was asked point blank about the Masters on a number of occasions. For example, see page 46 in the book, Think On These Things. He had the opportunity to say that he no longer accepted the Masters of Theosophy and his upbringing. He did not directly say it.

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Tue, 16 May 2017 #6
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 50 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
K had no problem condemning nationalism.

Few, if any, fervently nationalistic individuals attended K's talks with any frequency, I suspect. Many Theosophists attended his talks for many years after he disbanded the order.

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Tue, 16 May 2017 #7
Thumb_3740 richard head United States 50 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
He had the opportunity to say that he no longer accepted the Masters of Theosophy and his upbringing. He did not directly say it.

It is somewhat amazing the points that some minds dwell in.

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Wed, 17 May 2017 #8
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 184 posts in this forum Offline

Ken, that is an interesting quote from Jinarajadasa. From his point of view, K and Nitya may not have been very good students. But clearly K had plenty of Theosophy instruction and initiation, he wrote or had some part in writing At The Feet Of The Master, he was groomed to be the World Teacher, and he lectured as leader and teacher in the Order Of The Star. So K had lots of exposure to Theosophy obviously. Jinarajadasa is here somewhat defensive about Theosophy and K's split from it.

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Wed, 17 May 2017 #9
Thumb_photo saurab marjara India 58 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
From his point of view, K and Nitya may not have been very good students. But clearly K had plenty of Theosophy instruction and initiation, he wrote or had some part in writing At The Feet Of The Master, he was groomed to be the World Teacher, and he lectured as leader and teacher in the Order Of The Star. So K had lots of exposure to Theosophy obviously.

K was the Apostle of original thought. He did not care much for the philosophies of the world. So, although he had a lot of exposure to Theosophy, it came in the left ear and went out the right. He was never conditioned by theosophy, which is kind of sad, because theosophy had a lot to offer.

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Wed, 17 May 2017 #10
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 184 posts in this forum Offline

saurab marjara wrote:
He was never conditioned by theosophy...

No doubt K would agree with you. But in my view, he was influenced. He came to Theosophy a poor, shy, uneducated boy and a he left a highly articulate man who spoke before large crowds of people. That alone is a major change. Whether or not philosophical ideas "took" is a question, but on some level they did. Just the fact that he took up philosophical questions that relate to people's lives is a legacy from his days with Theosophists. However, on certain issues, of course, he clearly departed from the Theosophist line, such as initiations, gradual advancement, etc. He obviously taught about freedom from the past, from the known.

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Fri, 19 May 2017 #11
Thumb_photo saurab marjara India 58 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
No doubt K would agree with you. But in my view, he was influenced. He came to Theosophy a poor, shy, uneducated boy and a he left a highly articulate man who spoke before large crowds of people. That alone is a major change.

yes, now that I think about it, what you say is true.....

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