Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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"Thought and Perception"


Displaying posts 91 - 109 of 109 in total
Wed, 12 Apr 2017 #91
Thumb_img_20150716_212047-1-1 richard viillar France 37 posts in this forum Offline

It seems that the seeing of, that the movement of thought is an extension of something already translated, reveals other kind of energy...

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Wed, 12 Apr 2017 #92
Thumb_img_20150716_212047-1-1 richard viillar France 37 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
We see...what?

well, In fact we get always new Informations But brain is traped in the strenght flow of memory/thought

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Wed, 12 Apr 2017 #93
Thumb_img_20150716_212047-1-1 richard viillar France 37 posts in this forum Offline

But what we see even priorly the movement of thought is a translation

This post was last updated by richard viillar Wed, 12 Apr 2017.

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Wed, 12 Apr 2017 #94
Thumb_2474 Dan McDermott United States 1196 posts in this forum Offline

richard viillar wrote:
well, In fact we get always new Informations But brain is traped in the strenght flow of memory/thought

Back when LSD was first being experimented with, I had occasion to try it. My experience was that I was 'seeing' things for the first time. No "memorization" or "association"... just the raw amazing, unforgettable ,perception / encounter with ordinary things, their 'thingness' if you will.

This post was last updated by Dan McDermott Wed, 12 Apr 2017.

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Wed, 12 Apr 2017 #95
Thumb_img_20150716_212047-1-1 richard viillar France 37 posts in this forum Offline

Yes direct link... but yet, this thingness is already a translation...

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Wed, 12 Apr 2017 #96
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
you are arguing

Arguing??

Stuff happens

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Thu, 13 Apr 2017 #97
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1021 posts in this forum Offline

Rich Nolet wrote:
( finishing this chapter 4, which I recommended the reading )

KRISHNAMURTI: I should think one of the qualities of total perception is
compassion.

And what is this total perception ??
Is perception neutral ??
'Total' does that indicate a cumulation ??
Is there partial perception ??

Answers seem already been given by the assumption we know what is ment, but do we ??

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Thu, 13 Apr 2017 #98
Thumb_baboon-9186 dave h United Kingdom 1148 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Arguing??

Well things are getting pretty heated here :)
I do suggest a cooling off period before the forum is permanently damaged

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Sun, 16 Apr 2017 #99
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 553 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
Back when LSD was first being experimented with, I had occasion to try it. My experience was that I was 'seeing' things for the first time. No "memorization" or "association"... just the raw amazing, unforgettable ,perception / encounter with ordinary things, their 'thingness' if you will.

A friend of mine tells a story of when he took a hallucinogenic drug many years ago and ended up walking into a bar shouting "Have you seen the flowers on the roundabout down the road?".

Krishnamurti constantly pointed out the beauty of mountains or clouds full of light. Free of the pollution of thought, he seemed to be able to perceive the world around him with greatly enhanced sensitivity. Is it fair to say that our senses are significantly dulled by thought and that we miss much of the beauty around us?

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Sun, 16 Apr 2017 #100
Thumb_2474 Dan McDermott United States 1196 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
he took a hallucinogenic drug many years ago and ended up walking into a bar shouting "Have you seen the flowers on the roundabout down the road?".

:)

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Sun, 16 Apr 2017 #101
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4837 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
Back when LSD was first being experimented with, I had occasion to try it. My experience was that I was 'seeing' things for the first time. No "memorization" or "association"... just the raw amazing, unforgettable ,perception / encounter with ordinary things, their 'thingness' if you will.

One of K's close friends back in the 1940's and '50's was Aldous Huxley. Huxley wrote a book entitled "The Doors of Perception" about his experiences while taking mescaline*. There is a altered reality under the influence of hallucinogens. The problems are, obviously, that the perceptions can't be sustained without the drug and one hasn't come upon the perceptions revealed when thought ends through one's own understanding.

I have had a few experiences with hallucinogens back in the early 1970's. Under the right conditions hallucinogens can mimic what K was talking about relative to observation without thought.

Among other things there was a definite timeless state when under the influence of certain hallucinogens where you were so "into" what you were doing or observing that you were not aware of the passage of time. Also observations seemed to be devoid of conclusions at the time of observation. It wasn't until afterward that one supplied the descriptions and conclusions to what one observed while under the influence.

I wonder if Huxley ever listened to K while tripping? It would have been very interesting if he had and written about it. But not nearly as interesting as actually doing it yourself.

*Mescaline is a derivative which can be extracted from both the peyote and San Pedro cactuses.

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Sun, 16 Apr 2017 #102
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3002 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
The problems are, obviously, that the perceptions can't be sustained without the drug and one hasn't come upon the perceptions revealed when thought ends through one's own understanding.

The hippies and all the famous rock stars from the '60's found out, I'm sure, that the drug high eventually ends and one's conflicts remain...one is still violent, as were most of the hippies...maybe not outwardly violent, but inwardly in conflict, which is a form of violence. Well, I found out too, as I indulged a bit in the craziness of that era.

Let it Be

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Sun, 16 Apr 2017 #103
Thumb_2474 Dan McDermott United States 1196 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Is it fair to say that our senses are significantly dulled by thought and that we miss much of the beauty around us?

I think that its fair to say...thought seems to 'demand' the attention that could be present in our seeing, hearing, smelling, touching etc. Thought presents itself as so much more important...why be in the present when the past and future are so much more 'interesting'?

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Sun, 16 Apr 2017 #104
Thumb_img_20150716_212047-1-1 richard viillar France 37 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
why be in the present when the past and future are so much more 'interesting'?

Yes!! And it seems that it is Just a question of security... "i can control past and composed past (future)"...

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Sun, 16 Apr 2017 #105
Thumb_2474 Dan McDermott United States 1196 posts in this forum Offline

richard viillar wrote:
And it seems that it is Just a question of security... "i can control past and composed past (future)"...

Yes the fear of not being in 'control' keeps me in the 'known', in the familiar. But 'freedom' means not 'holding on' (psychologically) to anything, doesn't it? K. said "attention in the unknown is freedom from the known". And I would say that 'enlightenment' is a 'movement' in the unknown.

This post was last updated by Dan McDermott Mon, 17 Apr 2017.

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Mon, 17 Apr 2017 #106
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 553 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
thought seems to 'demand' the attention that could be present in our seeing, hearing, smelling, touching etc. Thought presents itself as so much more important...why be in the present when the past and future are so much more 'interesting'?

Hi Dan and all. Yes, maybe it really is a question of attention. It may seem simple but actually looking at a cloud, a tree or a range of mountains with great attention and a quiet mind seems to be a tremendous challenge to most of us.

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Mon, 17 Apr 2017 #107
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1021 posts in this forum Offline

Thought - as a material movement in the brain - can only be active in the material world and the material world is an unfoldment of the non-material !!

Truth is of the non-material world as is total perception and observation.

the boundary is made by the thought that we are more than the body, the body is real but we are not real, 'WE' are pretenders !!

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Tue, 18 Apr 2017 #108
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 553 posts in this forum Offline

'How does one go to the very source of thought so that there is a possibility of silencing the thinking process itself?'

Krishnamurti answers this question in the twelve and a half minute video here.

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Thu, 27 Apr 2017 #109
Thumb_photo saurab marjara India 58 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
They go on to discuss that thought is a machine and machines break down. Also, and most of us have read this before that consciousness is thought.

That is right. Thought is a machine, mechanical. But I dont agree that consciousness is thought. Consciousness is just observation, like seeing a sunset. Thought comes later on, and says what a lovely sunset it is. But at the moment of perception, thought is absent. Consciousness is free from thought.

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