Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Krishnamurti Foundations Worldwide


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Thu, 11 Mar 2010 #1
Thumb_anastasia Anastasia Kovas United States 29 posts in this forum Offline

Just a practical matter here: I would like to hear from people with first-hand knowledge about the effectiveness of the K Foundations and/or other K organizations in the dispensation of the teachings. Are there any recommendations or comments? What are their strengths or weaknesses in the mission of publicizing the teachings and their financial management, investments and administrative costs?

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Thu, 11 Mar 2010 #2
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 1128 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Anastasia Kovas wrote:
publicizing the teachings

How did we go from "protection" to Promotion (publicizing)? Where does krishnamurti ever talk about the need to "publicize" what he talks about? Only a false religion, needs to recruite warm bodies. You people should disolve the foundations. if you really loved Krishnamurti, you would.
that is what he would do. But usually my position and prestige comes before anything else.

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Thu, 11 Mar 2010 #3
Thumb_anastasia Anastasia Kovas United States 29 posts in this forum Offline

I'm afraid that if we dissol ved the foundations the teachings would disappear from our civilization. I think they are too important to not publicize. Where would you be today without Krishnamurti's 60 years of speaking?

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #4
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1930 posts in this forum Offline

The K Foundations are there to protect the teaching, and this they appear to do.

The truth does not need promotion - it will touch where and when it touches.

What K actually said in pointing towards that truth does require protection. His words are open - as all words are - to misinterpretation and misrepresentation. With the K Foundation doing what it does, anyone can always return to the source itself, and not rely on another person to interpret the teaching for them, and thus dilute it.

K said it all over his long life, and while what he said cannot possibly be absorbed by osmosis, it remains to this day a very real (and only) pointer to the discovery of actuality - if one is prepared to go there and find out for oneself.

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #5
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1930 posts in this forum Offline

ganesan balachandran wrote:
Truth protects itself some how

Truth does not have a 'self'. To try to give it one is to endeavor to inflict the limitations of thought as the self upon truth. Bit of a joke really to even consider doing so, isn't it?

A bit like inventing a god in one's own image and then worshiping it! And asking it to explain the universe. :)

Humanity does not control truth, no matter how much it may desire to believe it does.

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #6
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
With the K Foundation doing what it does, anyone can always return to the source itself, and not rely on another person to interpret the teaching for them, and thus dilute it.

Yes!

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #7
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

ganesan balachandran wrote:
his is where i felt generally a women finds difficulty in their perception especially the spinsters and raised it as a topic

Any other divisive feeling there?So far one has only maligned women,and age as factors,inhibiting perception?Surly there must be many more groups you feel have not the quality,or ease of your perceptive abilities.

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #8
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 1128 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Anastasia Kovas wrote:
Where would you be today without Krishnamurti's 60 years of speaking?

Agreed, publish a few books, upgrade/update with technology, keep the words available. But my dear, they have already disappeared from civilization. What is civilization, but your/our mind? Is the teaching in my heart, or on my lips? Most people flap their lips, but have no heart. Like my friend that tells me that Jesus loves me, telling me that the observer is the observed, is just empty words, ashes, as K would say. The Christains have managed to keep the word alive. But at a pretty high cost. Look deeply at what you are doing, that's all I can ask.

This post was last updated by Randal Shacklett (account deleted) Fri, 12 Mar 2010.

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #9
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 1128 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
and not rely on another person to interpret the teaching for them, and thus dilute it.

But Patricia, my own mind dilutes it.
What the foundations are doing, is not simple protection of the intellectual property. You must know the story of the copyright struggle between K and Rajagopal? The foundations were created to keep that from happening again, in K's mind anyway.
Publish a few books, etc.. that is protection. all else they are doing, is self promotion.

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #10
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 1128 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
it remains to this day a very real (and only) pointer to the discovery of actuality -

Says you. What is actuality? Real to who? Many people would violently disagree. This is madness! I feel like I'm through the looking glass in Krishnamurti-land!

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #11
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 1128 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

ganesan balachandran wrote:
Who is prepared to go there to find for themselves? Truth protects itself some how or remain as they are.. gb

Thank you.

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #12
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 1128 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

ganesan balachandran wrote:
But the above statements, is this what happenning to JK's teachings. gb

Thank you.

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #13
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 1128 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

RICK LEIN wrote:
Surly there must be many more groups you feel have not the quality,

There is only one group, that "have not the quality".

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #14
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Randal Shacklett wrote:
There is only one group, that "have not the quality".

Yes that's the point,thanks!

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #15
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

ganesan balachandran wrote:
Any other divisive feeling there? Iam only pointing out my observation.

All are equally lost,are they not? What on earth has THAT to do with gender or age?Is that an observation from wholeness,or a fragment expressing opinion about another fragment?How exactly did you come to that conclusion,from your observation?

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #16
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1930 posts in this forum Offline

ganesan balachandran wrote:
Truth is self and self is truth, and the only truth. nothing can be an object of its own quality.I dont mean the self which is ones own ego.At the same time i dont mean an higher self. If you dont mistake me this is where i felt generally a women finds difficulty in their perception especially the spinsters and raised it as a topic , which later i withdrew it. gb

I'm still laughing! :D

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #17
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1930 posts in this forum Offline

Randal Shacklett wrote:
But Patricia, my own mind dilutes it.

Then don't!

Dope dilutes it, feeds the self, and convinces the self that it is really wonderful underneath it all! ;)

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #18
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1930 posts in this forum Offline

Randal Shacklett wrote:
Publish a few books, etc.. that is protection. all else they are doing, is self promotion.

Never mind - at least they publish the books. Who isn't into self-promotion? Let he who is not cast the first stone.

Mind you - someone who isn't into self-promotion themselves would probably not even bother to make a comment like yours. What is the point?

I don't know anyone from the K Foundations - don't need to. The Foundations are doing basically what K asked - keeping the teaching together as a wholeness, and making it available in its pure form. There is nothing else to be done.

This post was last updated by Patricia Hemingway Fri, 12 Mar 2010.

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #19
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1930 posts in this forum Offline

Randal Shacklett wrote:
Says you. What is actuality? Real to who? Many people would violently disagree. This is madness! I feel like I'm through the looking glass in Krishnamurti-land!

Well Randy - go a little further - but without the fake bolster of mind-altering drugs.

Why should anyone care that 'many people would violently disagree'? Does truth obey popular opinion?

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #20
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Anastasia Kovas wrote:
I would like to hear from people with first-hand knowledge about the effectiveness of the K Foundations

I don't much know about foundation, but any foundation can't help in spiritual matter, whether it is there or it is disolved.

But a publisher is needed to publish the books of K, and as we know publishing of K book can't be a proffitable buisness, so there is a publisher needed who can publish book without thinking about proffit, that's all.

Now all books s'd be converted in E book, all audio and video s'd be available freely on net.

but still net is not common. so publication is needed. After publication whatever they do, they are free to do, because they can't give bliss to anyone whether they w'd have behaved in any different manner.

I don't know

This post was last updated by dhirendra singh Fri, 12 Mar 2010.

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #21
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
Why should anyone care that 'many people would violently disagree'? Does truth obey popular opinion?

Most excellent Patricia!

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #22
Thumb_deleted_user_med David Loucks United States 157 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Anastasia Kovas wrote:
Just a practical matter here: I would like to hear from people with first-hand knowledge about the effectiveness of the K Foundations and/or other K organizations in the dispensation of the teachings. Are there any recommendations or comments? What are their strengths or weaknesses in the mission of publicizing the teachings and their financial management, investments and administrative costs?
Recommend This post has been recommended

If by first hand knowledge you mean someone working for or directly connected to one of the Foundations then that wouldn't include me. But 32 years ago I was one of many people who helped build the grade school (I was a carpenter) and my wife's two kids were amoung the first students at the Oak Grove school. Since then we have stayed in contact with a few of the few remaining people who were with the KFA then and have survived the many purges to still be there now. Also we talked to many people who have since left the K Foundation with whom we are friends.I can say that financially the KFA has taken a heavy blow. Like many people and organizations the KFA was hit hard by the fraud on Wall Street and other financial sectors and probably by poor investment choices.

The old director, Mark Lee, is being replaced by a new director, Troy Sumrall, who doesn't seem that sharp when it comes to understanding what K was pointing out. A year or two ago Troy started a website that asked the deeply pressing questions: What K book would you take with you to a desert island? And which "Krishnamurti Places" have you been to? I think he was referring here to Ojai, Saanen, Brockwood, Rishi Valley, etc.

A couple of weeks ago my wife and I spent eleven days in Ojai staying at a cottage a couple of hundred feet from Pine Cottage. Pine Cottage is now the library. You can sit in the grand, high ceiling living room and read or just sit or you can sit in one of the "quiet" rooms which were Mary Z's and K's bedrooms. While there we noticed a drawing of plans to build extra buildings around the Pine Cottage, thus destroying even more of the orange groves around Pine Cottage and Arya Vihara half of which have already been destroyed in the past year and a half since Mary Z died. They were clear-cut for the given reason that there wasn't enough money to water them in the summer.

My point is that the KFA seems to be more interested in developement than trying to maintain what assests they already have. It seems to be the old development mantra that bigger is better.

Also, there may be good reasons for the this, but it appears that the KFA isn't making available all of the books, tapes, DVD's and CD's that they used to offer. The bookstore on the Kinfonet site, when it was still operation, offered much more material for sale than the KFA does.

I hope everyone will continue to support the various K Foundations but I suggest they be clear about just what they are supporting. Not everything the foundations do is in the best interestes of the foundations, in my opinion.

This post was last updated by David Loucks (account deleted) Fri, 12 Mar 2010.

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #23
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

David Loucks wrote:
Randal, at long last why don't you just shut up

this is intolerance, what we have done from thousands of years, should we continue this?

If one don't like, then why read him, and if read why reply him, he is getting highest reply, why give we all him so importance, because we are same.

We want to wander in our garden of illusion without any shake of truth. What is our intention? to know truth. Now some person are trying to live in illusion that they have already truth, and he point out that it's not true, it is their help, but this interfere in their dream, so there is irritation.

So Randal and we others are same, only difference is that he knew that he don't know, and some of us believe that we know

I don't know

This post was last updated by dhirendra singh Fri, 12 Mar 2010.

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #24
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
why give we all him so importance, because we are same.

Since the nature of the teachings points to self exploration of conditioning,the first question one could ask ones self is,am I responding to a fact,to the actual,or am I reacting to an image I have,and not the fact?

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #25
Thumb_deleted_user_med David Loucks United States 157 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
this is intolerance, what we have done from thousands of years, should we continue this?

OK, when you are done jumping on me go back and see how Randal has been intolerant of nearly everyone he has responded to. He recently even made sexual harrassing remarks about a young woman who came onto this site with some very good questions. Also, if you want to take the time to check the archives you will find that a couple of your countrymen have berated Randal a lot more strenuously than I have here.

Isn't being intolerant on your part to say I can't call out someone who is constantly intolerant of others? Randal has made a career out of trying to pass himself off as the ultimate authority on everything. He even cheats sometimes by changing quotes so that he can make his point.

OK, we are off topic. For me this is the end of the discussion.

This post was last updated by David Loucks (account deleted) Fri, 12 Mar 2010.

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #26
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

RICK LEIN wrote:
or am I reacting to an image I have,and not the fact?

It is so, saying someone shutup indicates that there is not willing for any true research/discovery, this is only I,more I, strenghthning it continously

I don't know

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #27
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 1128 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

David Loucks wrote:
Others have been kicked off for less

I wonder myself sometimes, I might have even tried once a long time ago to see if they would. Maybe you are not accurate in your assessments, though. maybe everything I say is correct and adequate to the situation, maybe not. maybe you are hurt and lashing out in frustration here, maybe not.
How about if we just arm-wrestle over it?

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #28
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 1128 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
Dope dilutes it,

So does money. So does adoration and prestige. So does power. So does attachments of all sorts. So do opinions of all sorts. So, what was your point? Other than a personal jab.

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #29
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 1128 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
Then don't!

Your own mind dilutes it. Why do you tell me not to?

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Fri, 12 Mar 2010 #30
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 1128 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
Who isn't into self-promotion? Let he who is not cast the first stone.

That is a lame defense of the position you are taking.
I've cast the first stone.

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