Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Choiceless perception

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #181
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
.but only observing said forest..

Guessing, is not observing/exploring.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #182
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
you may be indulging in the same behavior you're accusing others of indulging in.

I'm open to explore/look at any guess you may make, Tom.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #183
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3169 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

>all we have is guessing,

This is what I am saying, over and over.

In regards to what is behind another's behavior.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Tue, 28 Mar 2017.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #184
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3169 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

.but only observing said forest..
Guessing, is not observing/exploring.

You're only guessing what others are doing on their walk in the forest. Jack explained this I think, in his last message to you.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Tue, 28 Mar 2017.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #185
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3169 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

you may be indulging in the same behavior you're accusing others of indulging in.
I'm open to explore/look at any guess you may make, Tom

Actually, I think that you're not. I doubt you're open to anything anyone writes here....only your own conclusions and beliefs.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Tue, 28 Mar 2017.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #186
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5660 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
This is what I am saying, over and over.

What you seem to be saying over and over is that no matter what anyone says on here it's not good enough or right enough or pure enough or Krishnamurti-quality enough.

Things people write may not always meet our ideal of what writing should be on a K discussion board. You could say that any time anyone says anything it's limited, repetitious, memorized and so on. Sometimes that may be true and other times not. But who gets to judge that?

And what do you have if nothing anyone says is the right thing, worth anything? Can you give us an example of what the right speech is for this forum?

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #187
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 862 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Where do I say you are wasting time Sean? If my friend and I are walking in the forest and my friend claims to want to exit the forest, but continues to go deeper and deeper, I simply feel compelled to point that out.

Hi Randall. Thanks for the reply. Let's keep walking together and see where we end up.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #188
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1382 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
And what do you have if nothing anyone says is the right thing, worth anything?
Can you give us an example of what the right speech is for this forum?

This are not my wording but may be this would do something;

Vasanta School Gardens, Auckland New Zealand | 1st Public Talk, 30th March, 1934

"What I call patchwork is this continual alteration in the existing system of thought,
but keeping the foundation as it is intact. That is patchwork, isn't it? To keep things fundamentally as they are and alter the superficial difficulties, change about the transient afflictions, but not tackle the fundamental things. Now such work and such thought based upon this idea I call patchwork or reform. It is like improving the slums of the city.
Not that it is bad to improve the slums of the city; but that there should be slums,
that there should be people who are exploiting, that there should be this distinction of class division, is the problem, not how much improvement you can make.
Until we recognize that, and as long as there is not a radical, fundamental change,
merely dealing with symptoms is not going to do anything."

Some people seem to like going around in the slums and talk about
what others should do about exploiting it by going around and around !!

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #189
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 862 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
This are not my wording but may be this would do something;

Hi Wim. Thanks for the quote but I'm not sure what point you're making here. Are you saying that on this forum all we are doing is "continual alteration to the existing system of thought"?

We are the forum, the handful of people who come here to discuss and debate. Each of us contributes from time to time. Do we read each message with new eyes and the freshness and newness that came across when Krishnamurti spoke? Do we explore together and sometimes come across something new? These are questions we all have to answer for ourselves but if there were not times when coming here led to insight and discovery I suppose we would simply not come back.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #190
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
What you seem to be saying

Things aren't always what they seem Jack.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #191
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
Can you give us an example of what the right speech is for this forum?

If we are promoting this theory or that, then yes, we could make use of examples/knowledge/systems/methods. However, we are not promoting opinions/information to agree or disagree upon.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #192
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
Sometimes that may be true and other times not. But who gets to judge that?

The judgement/authority manifests within each and every individual mind. The things Randall says are unimportant and of no value whatsoever. The automatic processing mechanism that receives and compares (which adds a personal/individual bias) and files the incoming data is the factor of significance.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #193
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
Things people write may not always meet our ideal of what writing should be on a K discussion board.

Is this how you felt about the things Jean wrote? You called me "rude and arrogant", but the things you said to and about Jean, compare favorably to that quote. Did you ever "tone it down a bit", in your interactions with Mr. Gatti?

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #194
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5660 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Is this how you felt about the things Jean wrote?

Let's no worry about Jean. Jean was irrational and delusional and he had to be stopped or no topic could have proceeded without his disrupting it. Thankfully he's gone.

randall merryman wrote:
You called me "rude and arrogant",

You were rude and arrogant and you continue to be. You also never answer a question, just like Jean, and you continue to dodge and deny what you have written.

You come on here and basically tell everyone they are doing it wrong. Discussing wrongly and I'm still asking you if you think that maybe you would be so kind as to demonstrate the proper way to discuss what K has pointed out.

You have rejected the way most of us have approached discussing K so what do you suggest? What is the proper way to discuss K?

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Wed, 29 Mar 2017.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #195
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 329 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
The automatic processing mechanism that receives and compares (which adds a personal/individual bias) and files the incoming data is the factor of significance.

randall merryman wrote:

You called me "rude and arrogant", but the things you said to and about Jean, compare favorably to that quote.

Hi Randall. What do you mean exactly. Are you saying that the automatic processing mechanism that receives and compares (which add a personal/individual bias) is a conditioning that one must be aware of ? Or that it is a good way to justify yourself ?

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Wed, 29 Mar 2017.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #196
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1382 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Hi Wim. Thanks for the quote but I'm not sure what point you're making here. Are you saying that on this forum all we are doing is "continual alteration to the existing system of thought"?

I hardly dare to answer because it expressed previously that to compare is out of order, but the level of the conversation looked more like a conversation at the bar than in a joint inquiry.

Must I be sorry for my observation ??

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #197
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Rich Nolet wrote:
Are you saying

Just pointing to the fact that ones own mind is the only place to find out what the mind is all about. And also pointing out that what I am saying is unimportant.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #198
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
You have rejected the way most of us have approached discussing K so what do you suggest?

Sorry Jack I am not in the accept-reject business.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #199
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
You also never answer a question,

Questions-answers are the path of knowledge/information. Carry on. But don't tell me I can't comment on the goings on. That is rude and arrogant sir.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #200
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
you continue to dodge and deny what you have written.

Or not. I respond to any reasonable post directed to me. I generally don't respond to posts that are based in frustration telling me I'm full of $hip.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #201
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
What is the proper way to discuss K?

You seek a path? A correct method/system that guarantees success? Nice idea, uh?

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #202
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
Let's no worry about Jean.

Not worried about Jean, just reminding you of your past behavior as you seem to disconnect from it when convenient.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #203
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5660 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Sorry Jack I am not in the accept-reject business.

Of course you are. That is exactly what you do with your fairly consistent and inane interruptions into forums. You don't add to the discussion so much as you criticize the way people are discussing things. Your posts are proof of that.

randall merryman wrote:
But don't tell me I can't comment on the goings on. That is rude and arrogant sir.

No I'm not telling you you can't comment on the "goings on". But they are more than comments. You are saying, in effect, that the way people are commenting on here, aside from you, is not correct.

You have to own what you write. Stand behind it and quit trying to dodge it which is exactly what you are doing.

randall merryman wrote:
Or not. I respond to any reasonable post directed to me.

The problem is Randall that you respond by criticizing others when nothing has been directed to you at all. You are interrupting the thread to express your view that we are doing it all wrong. You are both grabbing the attention and diverting the subject of the thread. Sound familiar? I thought we just got rid of that.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Thu, 30 Mar 2017.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #204
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5660 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
You seek a path? A correct method/system that guarantees success? Nice idea, uh?

You know I'm not saying this. You are purposely twisting what I wrote around to try to irritate rather than communicate. This is what a child does when he has no response.

Randall, I'm done with this discussion because it is going no where. Please be courteous enough to allow the subject matter of this thread to continue without being diverted. You objections have been duly noted and now may we carry on?

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #205
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
allow the subject matter of this thread to continue without being diverted.

Please Jack, you give me too much credit for these exchanges going nowhere.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #206
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
may we carry on?

Please do. But don't expect me to not comment on why your carrying on simply goes around and around and always leads nowhere. If it pleases you to blame me for that phenomenon carry on, I can take the heat.

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Wed, 29 Mar 2017 #207
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
Randall, I'm done with this discussion because it is going no where

Please point to a discussion that goes somewhere.

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Thu, 30 Mar 2017 #208
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 862 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Please point to a discussion that goes somewhere.

Hi Randall. Am I right in understanding that you get very little or nothing out of the discussions that go on here? Is this a reflection on the discussions or a subjective opinion? Some, including myself, find it worthwhile taking part in discussions here. At many points there are contributions which make me reflect, perhaps go further with my understanding of K's teachings.

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Thu, 30 Mar 2017 #209
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3169 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
At many points there are contributions which make me reflect, perhaps go further with my understanding of K's teachings.

That's the question that I'm asking myself, Sean....do these discussions help me/you/us to better understand the teachings? In my own case, I can honestly reply, yes. Better understanding of the teachings translates to better understanding of oneself. If randall wants to claim that we're no different than a bunch of guys at the bar discussing the football game, he obviously has that right, but don't let's get sidetracked from why we are looking into the teachings in the first place. We want to understand why humanity is screwing up big time, with our brutality and violence and our callousness towards the plight of our fellow man. "You are the world." Donald Trump is US!

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Thu, 30 Mar 2017.

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Thu, 30 Mar 2017 #210
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5660 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
....do these discussions help me/you/us to better understand the teachings? In my own case, I can honestly reply, yes.

I agree with this. Because of what someone has written you have to look at what you think is your own understanding and question it. Maybe even check the facts or meanings of certain words.

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