Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Choiceless perception

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Mon, 27 Mar 2017 #151
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3121 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Krishanmurti, speaking from deep fundamental Insight into the human condition, is a very different phenomenon than folks here (and elsewhere) at Kinfonet playing pitch and catch with ideas/beliefs/knowledge gleaned from the things he said.

Sure, there's probably no K. writing here, but you can't say that no one is ever sharing some deep insight/s here...can you? Well, maybe you can, but I've not come to that conclusion.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #152
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
Read the book

More knowledge/information to help seeing clearly?

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #153
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
I've not come to that conclusion.

On a thread called "choicless awareness", you will use the choice mechanism to decide this or that?

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #154
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3121 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

Read the book
More knowledge/information to help seeing clearly?

Who said anything about seeing clearly. Just telling you that she got it from the horse's mouth :)

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #155
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3121 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

I've not come to that conclusion.
On a thread called "choicless awareness", you will use the choice mechanism to decide this or that?

No, Randall...I did not decide/conclude anything. That was my point. You have decided....that it's all no different than discussing the ball game at the bar. I've not decided or concluded anything about that.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #156
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
I've not decided or concluded anything about that.

But you continue to rely on that mechanism to make the choice to agree-disagree.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #157
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
You have decided

And how did you determine that?

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #158
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
Who said anything about seeing clearly. Just telling you that she got it from the horse's mouth

Third hand knowledge/information sir.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #159
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1088 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
And what if where it turns around is not the whole picture, take for example an 8,
then both are right at the same time !

Do the laws of the physical plane not work the same as on the psychological level and in relation with 'Truth' can we not say that it does not matter in which position you look it always stay 'Truth' and remains as incomplete information about ??

So what is at stake - the unknown - is independent of its environment!

Just a different look at the set in # 145

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Tue, 28 Mar 2017.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #160
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3121 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

You have decided
And how did you determine that?

Because you say it like a man who has already decided/concluded. Anyone else want to jump in on randall's point that what we are doing here is essentially no different than two guys at the bar discussing the Yankees and Mets? He's concluded (I've concluded that he's concluded, because he says it emphatically all the time) that it's just entertainment...we come here seeking comfort/security in ideas, concepts, knowledge, information. Nothing more goes on here. Does anyone agree...disagree? Question this assertion?

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #161
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5060 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
He's concluded (I've concluded that he's concluded, because he says it emphatically all the time) that it's just entertainment...we come here seeking comfort/security in ideas, concepts, knowledge, information. Nothing more goes on here. Does anyone agree...disagree? Question this assertion?

This assertion, all of these conclusions, are up to each individual to see for themselves about themselves. No one else can tell you who you are. Randall, or anyone else, can make these assertions/realizations about themselves but not about others.

We don't know what others know or why they do things. To simply say, "Well we are all the same" does not justify or validate telling others who they are and why they do what they do.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #162
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 657 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Yes, this is what goes on here. A big part of that is the comfort/security that sharing information with like minded (and argueing with un-like minded persons) brings. Much like when discussing our favorite football teams brings pleasure/comfort/security.

Hi Randall. I have to ask you the following question - if this forum is such a waste of time, why do you bother to come? I mean, if I was walking in a forest with a friend and he said "This is boring, it's just a bunch of trees" I would wonder what he was doing there.

This post was last updated by Sean Hen Tue, 28 Mar 2017.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #163
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3121 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
I would wonder what he was doing there.

Possibly randall finds great entertainment/comfort/security by coming here to tell us we're just seeking entertainment/comfort/security by coming here.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #164
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 657 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Possibly randall finds great entertainment/comfort/security by coming here to tell us we're just seeking entertainment/comfort/security by coming here.

I have to admit that I found that entertaining Tom :)

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #165
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1088 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:

randall merryman wrote:

Yes, this is what goes on here. A big part of that is the comfort/security that sharing information with like minded (and argueing with un-like minded persons) brings. Much like when discussing our favorite football teams brings pleasure/comfort/security.

Hi Randall. I have to ask you the following question - if this forum is such a waste of time, why do you bother to come? I mean, if I was walking in a forest with a friend and he said "This is boring, it's just a bunch of trees" I would wonder what he was doing there.

Tom Paine wrote:
Possibly randall finds great entertainment/comfort/security by coming here to tell us we're just seeking entertainment/comfort/security by coming here.

Come on guys do read the quote of today !!

These talks will be utterly useless if you do not
experience as you are listening.

Krishnamurti Quote of the Day | Mar 28, 2017

and transform it to the present:

These topics/replies will be utterly useless if you do not
experience as you are reading/writing ;-)

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #166
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3121 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
These topics/replies will be utterly useless if you do not
experience as you are reading/writing ;-)

Randall has been telling us we cannot apparently....that we're only sharing knowledge and information. I question that, but I see we're just getting sidetracked again from the thread topic. Glad you're trying to get back to Mr. K. and the 'teachings' rather than arguing whether we are wasting our time or not, which seems pointless. Nat made an interesting point the other day and I wanted to get back to it, but got sidetracked. Maybe later.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #167
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Sean Hen wrote:
if this forum is such a waste of time

Where do I say you are wasting time Sean? If my friend and I are walking in the forest and my friend claims to want to exit the forest, but continues to go deeper and deeper, I simply feel compelled to point that out.

Maybe I am wasting time because maybe my friend does not really want to exit, but rather enjoys the comfort and security of talking about exiting with like minded forest walkers.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #168
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
Possibly randall finds great entertainment/comfort/security by coming here to tell us we're just seeking entertainment/comfort/security by coming here.

I find no comfort in being made fun of.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #169
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
Randall has been telling us we cannot apparently

Pointing out the fact that you are not, does not imply that you cannot.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #170
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
arguing whether we are wasting our time or not,

Show me where I say you are wasting time Tom.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #171
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
Because you say it like a man who has already decided/conclude

And this is my point, you are guessing. If this is how you decide what is true from what is false (by how authoritative someone presents themselves) well, carry on.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #172
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
Does anyone agree...disagree?

Again, agree and disagree is information/knowledge/choice. The exit from the forest is not that direction.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #173
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3121 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

Randall has been telling us we cannot apparently
Pointing out the fact that you are not, does not imply that you cannot.

Good. So do we now have your permission to continue?

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #174
Thumb_leaping_fire_frog_by_sirenofchaos natarajan shivan India 80 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
my friend claims to want to exit the forest

Are there not two things involved here, one that of a projection of a conscience onto your friend and secondly, an assumption that the correct depth of it could be assessed, at-least the words we choose to communicate are revealing these aspects.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #175
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3121 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

Because you say it like a man who has already decided/conclude
And this is my point, you are guessing. If this is how you decide what is true from what is false (by how authoritative someone presents themselves) well, carry on.

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Well, we can't x-ray your brain cells to find out, so all we have is guessing, when someone is not being straight forward with us. And I agree it's only that....but maybe a pretty good guess.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #176
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3121 posts in this forum Offline

natarajan shivan wrote:
randall merryman wrote:

my friend claims to want to exit the forest
Are there not two things involved here, one that of a projection of a conscience onto your friend and secondly, an assumption that the correct depth of it could be assessed,

Perhaps the friend is walking in the forest without wanting to get out....but only observing said forest....is exploring said forest... which he is.

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This post was last updated by Tom Paine Tue, 28 Mar 2017.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #177
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3121 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

Possibly randall finds great entertainment/comfort/security by coming here to tell us we're just seeking entertainment/comfort/security by coming here.
I find no comfort in being made fun of.

Honestly, there is no intention to ridicule you randall. Just pointing to that you may be indulging in the same behavior you're accusing others of indulging in.

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #178
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

natarajan shivan wrote:
a projection of a conscience onto your friend

I'm not certain whet you are saying here, can you elaborate?

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #179
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

natarajan shivan wrote:
an assumption that the correct depth of it could be assessed,

Depth, of what?

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Tue, 28 Mar 2017 #180
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
all we have is guessing,

This is what I am saying, over and over.

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