Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Choiceless perception

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Thu, 06 Apr 2017 #271
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
I think the only honest objection for one to make on here is if someone is consistently preventing conversations, dialogues, from happening.

Can you define what you mean by "conversations" and "dialogues" more clearly if you would be so kind?

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Thu, 06 Apr 2017 #272
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
I doubt that that's ALL that's going on on the forum.

What is the phenomenon called "doubt", you speak of? Do you mean you disbelieve? You seem pretty certain there is something other than minds finding comfort/security in information exchanges between like minded posters.

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Thu, 06 Apr 2017 #273
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
Perhaps others will share their view.

Consensus building, is not an effective mechanism to find the facts/truth.

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Thu, 06 Apr 2017 #274
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
Try leaving yourself, your beliefs and simply watch without wanting or expecting something else.

Good advice Jack. Is this the way you determine what I am actually engaged in, on this forum?

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #275
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dave h wrote:
Being compared ad nauseam to some idea of how we could or should be able to react, seems to be an example of going nowhere.

Isn't this what the mind does itself, to itself? On a K site each mind compares itself and other selves, to the things K spoke of, no? And when several minds are engaged in this activity "ad nauseam", you know, going round and round, what is the problem with someone pointing all this out? You would think, enquiring minds would want to see themselves being themselves. All one must do, is look.

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #276
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dave h wrote:
Being compared ad nauseam to some idea of how we could or should be able to react, seems to be an example of going nowhere.

Go back and read post #1, of this thread. Is this what you mean?

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #277
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3067 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Do you mean you disbelieve? You seem pretty certain there is something other than minds finding comfort/security in information exchanges between like minded posters.

No my wording wasn't clear. I'm fairly certain that it's not just seeking comfort/security that's going on(though that may certainly be a factor)...some actual meditation and insight is happening as well. Can I prove it in a court of law? Obviously not.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Fri, 07 Apr 2017.

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #278
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3067 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

Perhaps others will share their view.
Consensus building, is not an effective mechanism to find the facts/truth.

Not looking for concensus. I'm interested to know if others have found some deeper insight into the 'teachings' by discussing and/or reading the posts here. Only because I think what you've been saying is only one side of the story.

Let it Be

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #279
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4906 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Good advice Jack. Is this the way you determine what I am actually engaged in, on this forum?

No. I don't have to determine anything because you keep telling us what you are engaged in on this thread even though you said you were done with doing that. See below.

It sometimes feels like, Randall, that you are taking out your anger and frustrations in life on some of us who post on this forum. We are here because of a common interest, bond, in discussing some of the things K pointed out. Not to attack you.

Randall wrote: Post 251

Maybe, we should just move on Jack. I have nothing else to add to this conversation.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Fri, 07 Apr 2017.

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #280
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
It sometimes feels like, Randall, that you are taking out your anger and frustrations in life on some of us who post on this forum.

I would simply suggest that you examine the phenomenon whereby you determine Randal is doing this or that. I'm always polite and impersonal when I address any other poster here. It seems more like the other posters (mostly you Jack) become angry and frustrated and personal by the things I point out, rather than me venting on my fellow posters. It seems quite absurd really that you should even suggest such a thing Jack.

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This post was last updated by randall merryman (account deleted) Fri, 07 Apr 2017.

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #281
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
Maybe, we should just move on Jack. I have nothing else to add to this conversation.

You addressed me, in response to something I said to someone else. And so, in respect to the situation, I addressed you back. You're just making up weird $h!t in order to draw me into conflict, shame on you.

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #282
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
Only because I think what you've been saying is only one side of the story.

There is, only one side to the story. If you look carefully, you will see that I am not saying anything that Krishnamurti hasn't said, over and over.

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #283
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Tom Paine wrote:
)...some actual meditation and insight is happening as well.

It didn't happen while Krishnamurti was alive. Where does he point to people who listen and discuss with him, coming to Insight and the state of meditation he speaks about? 30 years later it all blooms for some of the Kinfonet posters? Hardly likely sir.

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This post was last updated by randall merryman (account deleted) Fri, 07 Apr 2017.

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #284
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1040 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
There is, only one side to the story.If you look carefully, you will see that I am not saying anything that Krishnamurti hasn't said, over and over.

What are you saying here, Randall ??

Are you a copy cat or are you meditating or are you comparing ??

randall merryman wrote:
It didn't happen while Krishnamurti was alive. Where does he point to people who listen and discuss with him, coming to Insight and the state of meditation he speaks about? 30 years later it all blooms for some of the Kinfonet posters? Hardly likely sir.

Hardly likely sir that you have met or be in contact with all the people who heared or read Krishnamurti !

so this statement is missing all the ground !!

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #285
Thumb_baboon-9186 dave h United Kingdom 1156 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Go back and read post #1, of this thread. Is this what you mean?

I think I might play a game, where I act as if I've got it all figured out, do my very best to provoke reactions, point out to others how they're doing all this unenlightened stuff all the time, kind of stay within the forum guidelines, you know just enough, and then blame everyone if they find it annoying, and also do it a hell of a lot. How long do you think it would take for me to get banned? I figure I could last quite a while, if I play the game well enough.

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #286
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 576 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Isn't this what the mind does itself, to itself? On a K site each mind compares itself and other selves, to the things K spoke of, no? And when several minds are engaged in this activity "ad nauseam", you know, going round and round, what is the problem with someone pointing all this out? You would think, enquiring minds would want to see themselves being themselves. All one must do, is look.

Hi Randall. The clear implication in what you say above is that you can see clearly and the rest of us can't. You are saying, as far as I can see, that you have grasped Krishnamurti's message while all the others on this forum haven't. Although your language is polite, there is an underlying superiority in what you are saying that places you above the rest of us here. I don't know if you are serious in making these claims.

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #287
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Sean Hen wrote:
You are saying, as far as I can see, that you have grasped Krishnamurti's message

I said this quite clearly when I arrived and also occasionally when asked. The other part about me feeling superior or any implication of anything other than the plain generic questions or points made in the interactions/posts, comes from the mind of the reader.

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This post was last updated by randall merryman (account deleted) Fri, 07 Apr 2017.

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #288
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dave h wrote:
I think I might play a game,

This is your response to the highlighted quote?

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #289
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Sean Hen wrote:
there is an underlying superiority in what you are saying that places you above the rest of us here

Since most Kinfoneters, past and present, feel this "Randal thinks he's better/greater than the rest of us" as you describe so eloquently, it must be true, right? Or maybe, this feeling springs from the individual/divided mind of all those Kinfoneters, past and present, as a response of thought? But why is it important to you?

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #290
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 576 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Since most Kinfoneters, past and present, feel this "Randal thinks he's better/greater than the rest of us" as you describe so eloquently, it must be true, right? Or maybe, this feeling springs from the individual/divided mind of all those Kinfoneters, past and present, as a response of thought? But why is it important to you?

Hi Randall. I don't know if this is true. Maybe you don't mean to give this impression but it's something that seems to come across to a number of us here. If you say that the discussions here lead nowhere or that they just go round and round then of course that is a criticism of the depth of the contributions and the insight of the contributors. As one of the people who regularly writes to this forum I feel I am entitled to address this criticism. Does a contribution here ever cause you to reflect, doubt or perhaps observe a little more clearly Randall?

As for your point about this feeling being a response of thought, couldn't we say that about everything anybody says or writes? Or are there moments when something we say or write isn't a response of thought? Is there a response that comes from something else?

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #291
Thumb_baboon-9186 dave h United Kingdom 1156 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
This is your response to the highlighted quote?

No just an example of what I meant. About the quote I don't know that it's saying I should be this or that especially. But do you think no one else on the forum can say anything insightful? Are you saying that quote is of a completely different nature to everything that goes on here? Will you accept/reject this question?

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #292
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3067 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

)...some actual meditation and insight is happening as well.
It didn't happen while Krishnamurti was alive. Where does he point to people who listen and discuss with him, coming to Insight and the state of meditation he speaks about? 30 years later it all blooms for some of the Kinfonet posters? Hardly likely sir.

Read Mrs Z's bio based upon her diaries...also Mark Lee's book, 'the open door'. Obviously K felt Bohm had some insight into the teachings...they shared some insights in their dialogues....it wasn't all on the intellectual level now, was it? I know you're going to say that that was different...K was part of the discussion. But we have K here with us thru the teachings...the videos, etc, which might actually lead to some insight and learning in us folks here, don't you think? Of course he felt his talks would lead to insight and learning...self-knowledge. He wouldn't have wasted like 60 years of his life doing it if he felt no one could grasp his message....even partially.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Fri, 07 Apr 2017.

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #293
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4906 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
I'm always polite and impersonal when I address any other poster here.

Randall it certainly feels like you are making it personal especially when you say "mostly you Jack" as I have quoted you below.

randall merryman wrote:
It seems more like the other posters (mostly you Jack) become angry and frustrated and personal by the things I point out.

I don't think anyone would agree with you that my posts to you are "angry and frustrated". I feel neither when I read your posts or respond to them.

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #294
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4906 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
There is, only one side to the story. If you look carefully, you will see that I am not saying anything that Krishnamurti hasn't said, over and over.

Really? I spoke to K two times and he never.......

randall merryman wrote:
It seems more like the other posters (mostly you Jack) become angry and frustrated and personal

....said anything like this to me. And even though it was 39 years ago I would have remembered believe me. Randall, you're on the defensive and I understand that but can we end this "fist fight" and find a way to meet half way? Not just you and me but all of us.

I just wonder why you set yourself apart by lumping the rest of us into categories and leave yourself open to receiving personal responses from others in which they/we object and often reject your conclusions for various legitimate reasons. You don't seem to want to meet anyone half way and try to see their view points as well as your own.

I want to know if you are going to continue to block discussions on this forum because you don't agree with the way people express themselves here? I seriously want to know because I want to start another thread in which to discuss the chapter on "perception" from Limits of Thought. There are some really fascinating things being discussed by K and Bohm. I don't want the thread I start to end up being 10 pages long, like this one, with a large percentage of it being off topic bickering between what you think and the responses to that by the rest of us.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Fri, 07 Apr 2017.

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #295
Thumb_stringio Ken B United States 15 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

"You will never find God at sixty, for at that age most people are worn out, finished." Krishnamurti

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #296
Thumb_img_20150716_212047-1-1 richard viillar France 37 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
I want to start another thread in which to discuss the chapter on "perception" from Limits of Thought.

Good Idea... lets go? ;-)

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Fri, 07 Apr 2017 #297
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1040 posts in this forum Offline

Ken B wrote:
I thought " The ending of Time" would never end !!

You should not even think it doing !!
"There are two things one cannot measure:
" The Universe and Human Stupidity '
Albert Einstein.

richard viillar wrote:

Jack Pine wrote:

I want to start another thread in which
to discuss the chapter on "perception" from Limits of Thought.

Good Idea... lets go? ;-)

Yes indeed ;-)

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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