Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Craving


Displaying posts 151 - 180 of 186 in total
Mon, 06 Mar 2017 #151
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4906 posts in this forum Offline

Tell you what Wim. You don't have to join in to the Jack-Jean debate if you don't want and you are free to post whatever you want whenever you want and I won't say anything or accuse you of anything.

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Mon, 06 Mar 2017 #152
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Wim ... you are free to post whatever you want whenever you want and I won't say anything or accuse you of anything.

except saying "irrelevant nonsense":

Jack Pine wrote:
If on the other hand you like being awash in irrelevant nonsense that's your business.

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Tue, 07 Mar 2017 #153
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4906 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
except saying "irrelevant nonsense":

Once again Jean you have misunderstood what has been written and missed the point. I said I wouldn't accuse Wim of anything. I didn't say anything about you. The "irrelevant nonsense" was a reference to you.

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Tue, 07 Mar 2017 #154
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
the 8550 plus posts

I see that you still have interest in numbers ... but why ?

Is this forum a 'competition' for you Jack ?

Why resist 'what is' ?

This post was last updated by Jean Gatti Tue, 07 Mar 2017.

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Tue, 07 Mar 2017 #155
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1040 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Tell you what Wim. You don't have to join in to the Jack-Jean debate if you don't want and you are free to post whatever you want whenever you want and I won't say anything or accuse you of anything.

I'm a free man Jack and you giving me freedom of speech doesn't change that,
but thanks anyway ;-)

There is a Dutch proverb: "Plagen is om liefde vragen", Jean knowing Dutch would understand that! Translated is comes to "teasing/tormenting/badgering is asking for love" this performed to great heights shows that there is clearly a CRAVING for lots of love !!

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Tue, 07 Mar 2017 #156
Thumb_stringio Brian Smith United Kingdom 212 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Wim Opdam wrote:
There is a Dutch proverb: "Plagen is om liefde vragen", Jean knowing Dutch would understand that! Translated is comes to "teasing/tormenting/badgering is asking for love"

T

I love you Jack and Jean. Problem solved.

This post was last updated by Brian Smith (account deleted) Tue, 07 Mar 2017.

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Tue, 07 Mar 2017 #157
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Brian Smith wrote:
I love you Jack and Jean. Problem solved.

No, no, no ... not you ... I want Jack to love me :-)

Why resist 'what is' ?

This post was last updated by Jean Gatti Tue, 07 Mar 2017.

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Tue, 07 Mar 2017 #158
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4906 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
"teasing/tormenting/badgering is asking for love" this performed to great heights shows that there is clearly a CRAVING for lots of love !!

Do you really think Jean will understand this? And if so do you think it will penetrate his fixed view of the world that allows for only his version for what are "facts" and "truth".

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Tue, 07 Mar 2017 #159
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1040 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Do you really think Jean will understand this?
And if so do you think it will penetrate his fixed view of the world that allows for only his version for what are "facts" and "truth".

No, Jack, I thought nothing but suggested a possibility to understand.
Also, I was not expecting anything so it is no disappointment ;-)

I once read that Kishnamurti indicated that a problem should not
be solved on its own level, but at a higher level.

This opportunity is not understood and remain at the level of
one-dimensional personality rather than the impersonal level of Love,
the multidimensional 'Love' where Krishnamurti was talking about.

But it is 'what is' and one can see that it it remains what it was !

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Tue, 07 Mar 2017.

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Tue, 07 Mar 2017 #160
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4906 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
This opportunity is not understood and remain at the level of
one-dimensional personality rather than the impersonal level of Love,
the multidimensional 'Love' where Krishnamurti was talking about.

But it is 'what is' and one can see that it it remains what it was !

Wim I appreciate your concern. But if you can't see that Jean's presence on here is stopping any meaningful discussion from occurring, not just with me, but with numerous people including you. You have had your difficulty with Jean just as most of us have. Jean's bullshit, his opinion that only he knows and that he is here to teach the rest of us has to stop. If you can't help with that then I would appreciate it if you would not hinder it. Begrijp je dat? Jack

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Tue, 07 Mar 2017.

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Wed, 08 Mar 2017 #161
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1040 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
If you can't help with that then I would appreciate it if you would not hinder it. Begrijp je dat? Jack

Dear Jack,

Thanks for the nice gesture to talk to me in my language :-).

It is very clear to me that no one can change someone.
Changes occur if someone looks at a deeper level to his own actions
and his own thoughts, and there understand how it works.

There will always be people who challenge and those who defend but at that level
- history has taught us - nothing will change.

The Teachings are strong enough not to need both of them, it is the interpretation
of them, that is our working field, that goes for you, for me and for everyone.

In my view no one is hindered only is given an opportunity to look at it in a different way.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Wed, 08 Mar 2017 #162
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Jean's bullshit, his opinion that only he knows

But Jack this is your opinion, the image you created of me ... I always said that truth belongs to no one ... I don't have a 'monopoly' on truth ... everyone can see it ... except the one who is blinded by his own illusions ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

This post was last updated by Jean Gatti Wed, 08 Mar 2017.

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Wed, 08 Mar 2017 #163
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4906 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
But Jack this is your opinion, the image you created of me ...

No Jean, we have already had this conversation before and it is enough. You have stated on more than one occasion that you "know the truth". And recently you wrote that you see the "facts" while others of us only see images. You have also stated that you are here "to set us free". You think you are enlightened, that you understand something yet nearly your every post is a denial that you do understand ver much of anything. All you really do is repeat slogans, things you have read that others have said.

You have created the image of yourself. My words are just reflecting that image back to you.

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Wed, 08 Mar 2017 #164
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4906 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
It is very clear to me that no one can change someone.

Wim, my friend, I am certainly not trying to change Jean. I'm trying to get rid of him so that we have a chance to carry on a discussion without his invading it with his inanities, redundantcies and misunderstandings which he has mistaken for unshakable truths.

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Wed, 08 Mar 2017 #165
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1040 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Wim, my friend, I am certainly not trying to change Jean. I'm trying to get rid of him so that we have a chance to carry on a discussion without his invading it with his inanities, redundantcies and misunderstandings which he has mistaken for unshakable truths.

There is a way to carry on a discussion without his invading by ignoring his topics and all his replies.

Knowing his tricks and knowledge it's almost like thoughts is intervening with an activity if one doesn't give it energy it dries out.

Like thoughts he is living by attention so let it go and/or play with him instead let him play with you.
It is his game on this forum and you earlier commented he also does it elswhere.
If he doesn't want to join in, let him play on his own !!
If others are that stupid to be fooled by him, let them have their fun !!

But indeed I also prefer they gone play on another playground ;-)

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Wed, 08 Mar 2017 #166
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4906 posts in this forum Offline

Thanks for you comments Wim. There is, without doubt, some wisdom in them.

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Wed, 08 Mar 2017 #167
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3067 posts in this forum Offline

Wim..your post #165

Thank you! Some wise words there.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Wed, 08 Mar 2017.

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Wed, 08 Mar 2017 #168
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
I'm trying to get rid of him

But Jack don't you know that what you resist persists ? So why not listen to Wim's wise advice and stop all futile resistance ?

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Wed, 08 Mar 2017 #169
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1040 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
But Jack don't you know that what you resist persists ? So why not listen to Wim's wise advice and stop all futile resistance ?

But Jean, there are two sides on this story,
why not listen to wise advise and play on another playground.

Wim Opdam wrote:
There will always be people who challenge and those who defend but at that level
- history has taught us - nothing will change.

OH...wait a minute you want to be free !!!!

QOTD:

Ojai, California | 3rd Talk in the Oak Grove 19th April, 1936

The very desire to be free creates its own limitation.
These primitive or ignorant reactions create conflicts, disturbances and sorrow in your life, and by getting rid of them you hope to acquire something else, happiness, bliss, peace, and so on.
So you put to me the question: How am I to get rid of these reactions? That is, you want me to give you a method, lay down a system, a discipline, a mode of conduct.

If you understand that there is no separate consciousness, apart from the "I" process; that the "I" is consciousness itself; that ignorance creates its own limitations, and that the "I" is but the result of its own action, then you will not think in terms of denudation and acquisition.

But this is K102, obviously to difficult for you to understand !!

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Wed, 08 Mar 2017 #170
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
why not listen to wise advise and play on another playground.

Why do you resist 'what is' Wim ? Why create another 'should be' ? another expectation ?

... and btw why do you 'react' to my posts when you tell others not to ? This is utterly inconsistent, no ?

"Do what I say but not what I do" ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Wed, 08 Mar 2017 #171
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4906 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
... and btw why do you 'react' to my posts when you tell others not to ? This is utterly inconsistent, no ?

Because what you write; your endless positive assertions, your conclusions based on nothing but hot air and baseless opinions, are like mosquitoes or flies buzzing around. One spontaneously swats at the annoyance.

Jean why do you assume that we are obligated to bear, endure your arrogance and ignorance?

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Thu, 09 Mar 2017 #172
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Jean why do you assume that we are obligated to bear, endure your arrogance and ignorance?

Well I don't expect self to surrender without a fierce resistance Jack ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Thu, 09 Mar 2017 #173
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1040 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
... and btw why do you 'react' to my posts when you tell others not to ? This is utterly inconsistent, no ?

Bombay, India | 2nd Public Talk, 1959

Sirs, when you love something with your whole being,
there is no self-contradiction.
But most of us have not that wholeness of love.
Our love is divided as carnal and spiritual, sacred and profane, and all the rest of that I nonsense. We do not know the love which is a total feeling, a completeness of being, which is neither of the past nor of the future, and which is not concerned with its own continuity. That feeling is total, it has no border, no frontier, and that feeling is action free of self-contradiction. Don't say, "How am I to get it?" It is not an ideal, a thing to be gained, a goal you must arrive at. If it is an ideal, throw it out, because it will only create a greater contradiction in your life. You have enough ideals, enough miseries - don't add another. We are talking about something entirely different: freeing the mind of all ideals, and therefore of all contradiction.
If you see the truth of that, it is enough.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Thu, 09 Mar 2017.

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Thu, 09 Mar 2017 #174
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote (quoting K):
K: "Sirs, when you love something with your whole being,
there is no self-contradiction. "

Is it love to tell other people to ignore one person ?

... and btw you still react to my posts ... why ? Do you want to prove something ? or defend some opinion ?

Why resist 'what is' ?

This post was last updated by Jean Gatti Thu, 09 Mar 2017.

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Thu, 09 Mar 2017 #175
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3067 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Jack Pine wrote:

Jean why do you assume that we are obligated to bear, endure your arrogance and ignorance?

Jean: Well I don't expect self to surrender without a fierce resistance Jack ...

Ah, the truth is out. You DO have expectations, then. ;) AND expectations are a resistance to what is.

Let it Be

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Thu, 09 Mar 2017 #176
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
You DO have expectations

You have a strange logic Tom ... I say "I don't expect" and you understand that I have expectations ... exactly the contrary of what I say ... no wonder there is often misunderstanding in this forum :-)

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Thu, 09 Mar 2017 #177
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3067 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
I say "I don't expect" and you understand that I have expectations

You expect the self to surrender eventually....when Jack's resistance to the truth you are sharing ends, don't you? I mean, it appears to me that you guys are both trying to convince one another that you are right and the other is wrong. Hardly a recipe for dialog.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Thu, 09 Mar 2017.

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Thu, 09 Mar 2017 #178
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
You expect the self to surrender eventually....when Jack's resistance to the truth you are sharing ends, don't you?

Oh I see, this is how you have interpreted what I said :-)

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Thu, 09 Mar 2017 #179
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3067 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Oh I see, this is how you have interpreted what I said :-)

Aren't you trying to play the I am right, you are wrong game? To share some spiritual knowledge? To teach Jack? It seems this is what's causing the rocky relationship you and Jack are having. Possibly I'm off base here. It is puzzling me for sure... why it persists.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Thu, 09 Mar 2017.

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Thu, 09 Mar 2017 #180
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
It is puzzling me for sure... why it persists.

because the self is not going to surrender without resistance Tom :-)

... for the self, losing control is the worst of all things ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

This post was last updated by Jean Gatti Thu, 09 Mar 2017.

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