Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Krishnamurti and Secularism


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Tue, 07 Feb 2017 #1
Thumb_9204480_n03 French Touch France 37 posts in this forum Offline

Was K for an equal treatment and respect for all religions, or anti all religions. One must be different from the other.

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Tue, 07 Feb 2017 #2
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4837 posts in this forum Offline

Why are these the only two choices? I remember reading in either "The Future of Humanity" or "The Ending of Time" where K and Dr Bohm were laughing at how boring the Christian heaven sounded. Mainly K talked about how religion and the accompanying gods were the invention of thought. A desperate attempt by mankind to find some hope or security in the future.

K saw organized religion as an attempt to feel that some part of the individual would not end with death but go on for eternity. K appeared to see organized religion as nothing more than a shallow attempt to find security and comfort in a dangerous world. The result being that organized religion has set man against man in perpetual war and endless suffering. And for what? An illusion.

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Tue, 07 Feb 2017 #3
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4837 posts in this forum Offline

Is There Truth in Religions?

The question is: Is there not truth in religions, in theories, in ideals, in beliefs? Let us examine. What do we mean by religion? Surely, not organized religion, not Hinduism, Buddhism, or Christianity, which are all organized beliefs with their propaganda, conversion, proselytism, compulsion, and so on. Is there any truth in organized religion? It may engulf, enmesh truth, but the organized religion itself is not true. Therefore, organized religion is false, it separates man from man. You are a Muslim, I am a Hindu, another is a Christian or a Buddhist and we are wrangling, butchering each other. Is there any truth in that? We are not discussing religion as the pursuit of truth, but we are considering if there is any truth in organized religion. We are so conditioned by organized religion to think there is truth in it that we have come to believe that by calling oneself a Hindu, one is somebody, or one will find God. How absurd, sir; to find God, to find reality, there must be virtue. Virtue is freedom, and only through freedom can truth be discovered, not when you are caught in the hands of organized religion, with its beliefs. And is there any truth in theories, in ideals, in beliefs? Why do you have beliefs? Obviously, because beliefs give you security, comfort, safety, a guide. In yourself you are frightened, you want to be protected, you want to lean on somebody, and therefore, you create the ideal, which prevents you from understanding that which is. Therefore, an ideal becomes a hindrance to action.
J. Krishnamurti, The Book of Life

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Tue, 07 Feb 2017 #4
Thumb_9204480_n03 French Touch France 37 posts in this forum Offline

Why are these the only two choices?

Because it set man against man in perpetual war and endless suffering? (it seems a good reason for me to be anti all religions. Unless you redefine the word as K did)

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Tue, 07 Feb 2017 #5
Thumb_9204480_n03 French Touch France 37 posts in this forum Offline

We have this never ending debate here in France on "Laïcité". Which seems to me good, but not good enough. We need more guys like Sam Harris.

This post was last updated by French Touch Wed, 08 Feb 2017.

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Wed, 08 Feb 2017 #6
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4837 posts in this forum Offline

French Touch wrote:
"Laïcité

French Touch I read your suggested reading on the above word and it was very interesting. I respect France's apparently tenacious hold on their liberties. I hope France can continue to

Also, I know I don't really appreciate how difficult it must have been for France to break away from the grasp of the Catholic Church. England did it but replaced the Catholic Church with the Church of England. Germany broke away too but once again much of the influence of the Catholic Church may have transferred to the Lutheran belief system. The United States pretends to have a separation of church and state but that separation is under constant attack by the right wing fanatical Christians. And they appear to be winning.

I also deeply appreciate the way France carried out their revolution in the late 18th Century. It lacked the ambiguity of other countries revolutions with it's more, shall we say, emphatic solutions to both the religious and nobility problems. If only the US and UK could round up their rich and corrupt tiny minorities which control most of the wealth and the political whores who help perpetuate this inequity and separate them from their...........bank accounts.

Thanks for the interesting thread.

PS Do you see Le Pen as a threat to the liberalism and freedoms that France now has?

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