Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Clive aren't you being presumptous?


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Sat, 17 Dec 2016 #1
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4781 posts in this forum Offline

Clive your arrogance and conceit has finally brought you to advertising your forum on the internet. Do you really think it is that vital? Do you think your forum is the only one worth reading on Kinfonet? Maybe none of them are worth reading. But yours is certainly not exceptional with Mina and David T and others posting whimsical crap from somewhere out in LA LA land.

The idea to advertise really blows especially since you didn't mention the other two forums. Why? Are they not as worthy, in your mind, as your forum? It's just your forum on Kinfonet that is worth reading right? Do you really believe that? If you're going to advertise why not the entire Kinfonet?

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Sun, 18 Dec 2016.

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Sun, 18 Dec 2016 #2
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 970 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Do you really think it is that vital?

Dear Jack,

He is just brushing his teeths, don't make a offence on it.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Sun, 18 Dec 2016 #3
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4781 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
Dear Jack,

He is just brushing his teeths, don't make a offence on it.

Wim Opdam wrote:
Dear Jack,

He is just brushing his teeths, don't make a offence on it.

That's funny Wim. But I wish I actually knew what you wrote meant. I'm not too worried about what Clive was doing but I needed to burn off a little steam yesterday and Clive's strange idea of advertising his forum came into my sights, so to speak.

I hope everything is well for you Wim and that you are enjoying good health. Take care, Jack

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Sun, 18 Dec 2016 #4
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 970 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
But I wish I actually knew what you wrote meant.

I was refering to your 'brushing your teeth' before a fire peloton, "because it was the right thing to do".

For Clive it seems the right thing to do, may be it is, may be it isn't, who knows ??

Jack Pine wrote:

I hope everything is well for you Wim
and that you are enjoying good health. Take care, Jack

Everythingh is oké with me, I only have to consider my eye disabilitiy and often Lately I'm not aware of time and must pay the bill afterwards.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Sun, 18 Dec 2016.

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Sun, 18 Dec 2016 #5
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4781 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
I was refering to your 'brushing your teeth' before a fire peloton, "because it was the right thing to do".

Right. Now I have it.

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Sun, 18 Dec 2016 #6
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
I needed to burn off a little steam yesterday

Probably some resistance to 'what is' which indeed creates lots of heat ... all wasted energy ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Sun, 18 Dec 2016 #7
Thumb_a1056283319_2 Tom Paine United States 2919 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Jack Pine wrote:

I needed to burn off a little steam yesterday
Probably some resistance to 'what is' which indeed creates lots of heat ...

And what do you expect to accomplish with that remark, but more heat? Come on, Jean, you know Jack finds this kind of remark annoying, yet you throw it out there in spite of it all (resisting knowing how Jack hates your guru act) like some self promoting know at all. Are you that insensitive to what's been going on forever here between you and Jack?

Let it Be

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Sun, 18 Dec 2016 #8
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
And what do you expect to accomplish with that remark, but more heat?

No expectations at all Tom ... just factual observation is enough ... why would one be upset by the statement of facts ?

Anger is clearly a resistance to 'what is' ... and a waste of energy. This is a fact, no ?

Why resist 'what is' ?

This post was last updated by Jean Gatti Sun, 18 Dec 2016.

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Sun, 18 Dec 2016 #9
Thumb_a1056283319_2 Tom Paine United States 2919 posts in this forum Offline

Communication is impossible here, I'm afraid. I give up!

Let it Be

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #10
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4781 posts in this forum Offline

Jean you are one sick puppy. Get some help.

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #11
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4781 posts in this forum Offline

And thanks Tom but Jean's goading doesn't work like it used to. We have all seen him for what he really is. That's enough for me.

Now I have a fire in the fireplace to attend to. Tom I don't know if it has hit you yet but there may be some really cold weather heading your way from the Rockies. It was several degrees below O F last night and not a hell of a lot better tonight.

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #12
Thumb_a1056283319_2 Tom Paine United States 2919 posts in this forum Offline

We're supposed to be close to 50 F here over Christmas weekend....and above freezing through New Years day. I'm about 55 miles so. of NYC. Last week was cold though....25 or below for a couple of days with a strong wind. Was painful to go for even a short walk. Stay warm!

Let it Be

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #13
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Communication is impossible here, I'm afraid. I give up!

I see two problems with your communication Tom:

1) you do not always stick to facts

2) at times you practice "selective indignation" (eg your post #7)

Why resist 'what is' ?

This post was last updated by Jean Gatti Mon, 19 Dec 2016.

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #14
Thumb_a1056283319_2 Tom Paine United States 2919 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
1) you do not always stick to facts

Some facts from K.: " propaganda is merely repetition, and repetition of a truth is a lie. When you repeat what you consider to be the truth, then it ceases to be the truth. Say, for instance, you repeat the truth concerning man's relationship to property, the truth which you have not discovered for yourself; what value has it?

Repetition has no value; it merely dulls the mind, and you can only repeat a lie. You cannot repeat truth, because truth is never constant. Truth is a state of experiencing, and what you can repeat is a static state; therefore it is not the truth."

And from today's QOTD: "Wisdom is born of the intensity of living, not of intellectual theories, whether they be true or false; and there is intensity of living only when action is complete in the present, with the richness of thought and feeling."

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Mon, 19 Dec 2016.

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #15
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Quotes from K do not change the facts Tom ... I would call this an easy escape ... and of course this is 'what is' and needs not be resisted ...

... and btw what about your 'selective indignation' Tom, we didn't hear much from you when Jack insulted me dozens of times ?

Why resist 'what is' ?

This post was last updated by Jean Gatti Mon, 19 Dec 2016.

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #16
Thumb_a1056283319_2 Tom Paine United States 2919 posts in this forum Offline

My point was that you know remarks like you made above to Jack tend to annoy the hell out of him. You're not stupid....so why do you continue in the same manner...in what's clearly a failure mode for you? What do you get out of it? Some self satisfaction of proving you're right (in your own mind)?

Let it Be

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #17
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
My point was that you know remarks like you made above to Jack tend to annoy the hell out of him.

And why don't you make the same remarks to Jack ? Radio silence there ?

This is what I call 'selective indignation' ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

This post was last updated by Jean Gatti Mon, 19 Dec 2016.

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #18
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
What do you get out of it?

What makes you think I am trying to 'get' something ? I say what I see ... and when I see emotional reactions (in myself or in others) it is always interesting to understand their root cause ... do you think we can understand anything by mere intellectual exchanges and quotes from K or anyone else ? The truth lies well beyond our rational minds Tom ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #19
Thumb_3135 Jo D United Kingdom 38 posts in this forum Offline

This is just a guess Tom, but for some consistent provokers, it may be that they enjoy pressing buttons so as to see whats just under the surface in others. It's possible they take on that specific role in order to keep an 'edge' in the forum and prevent it from becoming 'sleepy' and to prevent us from getting lost in our own politeness. I like courtesy in others but I personally can get lost in my own and lose the ability to have an assertive voice.

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #20
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Jo D wrote:
it may be that they enjoy pressing buttons so as to see whats just under the surface in others.

Interesting posting Jo, however the word "enjoying" is not quite correct ... there is no 'joy' from doing this, there is no 'sadistic' satisfaction in this ... as I said it is a way to go beyond 'politeness' and 'rationality' to find the truth hidden beyond our conventional behaviours ... emotional reactions tell more about who we are (as 'ego') than all our rational justifications and social conformisms ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #21
Thumb_a1056283319_2 Tom Paine United States 2919 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
The truth lies well beyond our rational minds Tom ...

And beyond endless repetitions. Repeating is not 'seeing'/understanding, Jean.

Let it Be

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #22
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
And beyond endless repetitions. Repeating is not 'seeing'/understanding, Jean.

I cannot see any connection with what has been said in this discussion Tom ?

Are you irritated by repetitions ? Why would you ?

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #23
Thumb_a1056283319_2 Tom Paine United States 2919 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

My point was that you know remarks like you made above to Jack tend to annoy the hell out of him.
And why don't you make the same remarks to Jack ?

Because I happened to come upon your remark to Jack, that's why. It seemed such an obvious passive aggressive provocation(in other words...."I'm just trying to help you, Jack....it's for your own good") that I pointed it out. Now must I play 'title for tat' and criticize Jack?

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Mon, 19 Dec 2016.

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #24
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Now must I play 'title for tat' and criticize Jack?

No, why criticize or judge anyone ? ... just see and stick to facts Tom ... without adding personal conclusions, opinions, interpretations, judgements, evaluations etc ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #25
Thumb_a1056283319_2 Tom Paine United States 2919 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

And beyond endless repetitions. Repeating is not 'seeing'/understanding, Jean.
I cannot see any connection with what has been said in this discussion Tom ?

No, you wouldn't. You're blind to some of your behaviors, which are so annoying to many forum members.

Let it Be

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #26
Thumb_a1056283319_2 Tom Paine United States 2919 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
. just see and stick to facts Tom ...

You're a robot right? You're not even reading my posts, obviously.

Let it Be

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #27
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
You're a robot right?

Now image making Tom ? Do you see how you make things personal now ?

Why ?

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #28
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4781 posts in this forum Offline

Jo D wrote:
This is just a guess Tom, but for some consistent provokers, it may be that they enjoy pressing buttons so as to see whats just under the surface in others.

This is all speculation and so much airy-fairy nonsense based on no facts as all of us who have had to endure Jean for years can attest to. Jean likes to push buttons because he's, frankly, a jerk who thinks he alone is the keeper of truth and he is here to instruct the rest of us. He has admitted to as much.

Don't enable Jean. It won't help him to see his problems and it certainly won't bring peace to this forum. Which probably won't happen anyway as long as Jean is here spreading his fertilizer.

For example Jean and I had an agreement not to respond to each other's posts. Yet last week he responded to several (about 4 times) of my posts sarcastically and I said nothing. This week I did respond to one of his posts and he immediately accused me of breaking the deal. This even though he had already broken the agreement several times. This is the kind of dishonesty and lack of character for which Jean is famous.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Mon, 19 Dec 2016.

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #29
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4781 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
No, why criticize or judge anyone ? ...

You do this consistently.

Jean Gatti wrote:
Now image making Tom ? Do you see how you make things personal now ?

And here is your latest example. Something you wrote to Tom:

Jean Gatti wrote:

Now image making Tom ? Do you see how you make things personal now ?
Why ?

This is called a judgment Jean whether it is you doing it or me or Tom or anyone else? Why can't you see the obvious? Why have you completely blocked who you really are with illusions of yourself you have invented? Oh well, I guess I can see why you do that but you really shouldn't. Face life Jean. Often life is a bitch but as long as we run from it we will never be free. Eh?

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Mon, 19 Dec 2016 #30
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 4781 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Are you irritated by repetitions ? Why would you ?

Because they are a mind-numbing distraction and denial of what is actually occurring.

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