Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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QOD Sep 17, 2016


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Sat, 17 Sep 2016 #1
Thumb_leaping_fire_frog_by_sirenofchaos natarajan shivan India 87 posts in this forum Offline

Excerpt: And so, the approach to the problem becomes all important. The 'how' is more important than 'action'. So, to know how to approach this catastrophe is more important than what to do about it. That 'how' can only be understood, when we are capable of looking at the problem through ourselves and not through formula. (End of excerpt);

What happens when 'facts' are given the status of 'truth', and a course of action planned from the framework of such collection of facts? Most likely, the result is that 'belief' replaces sensitivity in seeing. The kick-starting of a vicious circle wherein the need to believe is reinforced by the lack of sensitivity and viceversa. Again, most likely...

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Sat, 17 Sep 2016 #2
Thumb_stringio Huguette . Canada 539 posts in this forum Offline

Natarajan,

By “facts”, do you mean attributing the status of “truth” to personal knowledge, beliefs, opinions or interpretations --- e.g. “I really really really believe this and so I proclaim it to be fact or truth”? If that IS your meaning, I also see it this way.

Isn’t it sufficient to be aware, to see this "old" approach occurring in oneself? So that seeing IS the “new” approach: --- the mind approaching the mind “empty-handed” so to speak, wordlessly, without theories or speculation. Seeing needs no further analysis or speculation, I think.

In the "new" approach, the intellect does not try to solve the problem through effort or choice, devising a course of action. So I'm asking, where the mind approaches a problem in this way, is it the same old mind acting?

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Sat, 17 Sep 2016 #3
Thumb_leaping_fire_frog_by_sirenofchaos natarajan shivan India 87 posts in this forum Offline

Huguette . wrote:
If that IS your meaning,

Yes

Huguette . wrote:
Isn’t it sufficient to be aware, to see this "old" approach occurring in oneself? So that seeing IS the “new” approach:

Yes

Huguette . wrote:
In the "new" approach, the intellect does not try to solve the problem through effort or choice, devising a course of action. So I'm asking, where the mind approaches a problem in this way, is it the same old mind acting?

The question of whether an 'action' carried out outwardly (by oneself or the other) is clean or not, as I see, is always in the realm of old mind, arising out of incomplete perception.

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Sat, 17 Sep 2016 #4
Thumb_stringio Huguette . Canada 539 posts in this forum Offline

natarajan shivan wrote:
The question of whether an 'action' carried out outwardly (by oneself or the other) is clean or not, as I see, is always in the realm of old mind, arising out of incomplete perception.

Could be. Do you think that asking the question is the same action whether it is asked with a view to finding an answer, or whether it is asked as a gate to observation?

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Sat, 17 Sep 2016 #5
Thumb_leaping_fire_frog_by_sirenofchaos natarajan shivan India 87 posts in this forum Offline

Huguette . wrote:
Do you think that asking the question is the same action whether it is asked with a view to finding an answer, or whether it is asked as a gate to observation?

Depends on whether the question has it's origin from a shared space of dialogue; usually, an attempt to start a dialogue with a question on mind indicates it's personal nature of origin and at best with observation as some sort of 'ideal' to aspire for.

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Sat, 17 Sep 2016 #6
Thumb_stringio Huguette . Canada 539 posts in this forum Offline

This seems to me like an analytical approach. I could be wrong.

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Tue, 20 Sep 2016 #7
Thumb_jan09_012 Peter Stephens Australia 5 posts in this forum Offline

Regardless, we say, of the quality of the teachings, we see there is a problem, for people in general, who will continue within the conditioned affair. Isn't this asking, given the conditioned state of affairs, what am I, what is anyone to do? Isn't this a problem of the "I" that is for all of us? --Realising, the standard perception of who I am, how I am to live, is false.

This post was last updated by Peter Stephens Tue, 20 Sep 2016.

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Tue, 20 Sep 2016 #8
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Stephens wrote:
what is anyone to do?

Anything you 'do' would come from the same source, no ?

So what ?

Isn't seeing THE action to 'do' ? Is seeing a 'doing' ?

Why resist 'what is' ?

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