Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Was the world ready for K ?


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Tue, 10 May 2016 #1
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

From another discussion:

Brian Smith wrote:
Jean, you rock, but I think the world isn't ready for you.

Was the world ready for K ?

Is the world ready for any of us ? Don't we all have a feeling of being kind of 'alien' in this world ?

??

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Tue, 10 May 2016 #2
Thumb_farside0411 m christani United States 262 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Was the world ready for K ?

I read at least once K saying, "Perhaps it is true, that nothing grows under the banyan tree."

mike

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Wed, 11 May 2016 #3
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1430 posts in this forum Offline

m christani wrote:
I read at least once K saying, "Perhaps it is true, that nothing grows under the banyan tree."

I think that it's a good post, you brought it up once before...that after his passing, we could attempt to work all this out?

This may be all wrong of course

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Wed, 11 May 2016 #4
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Is the world ready for any of us ?

Are we ready for competition ? for jealousy ? for conflicts ? for violence ?

Are we made for that kind of stuff ?

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Wed, 11 May 2016 #5
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5655 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Are we ready for competition ? for jealousy ? for conflicts ? for violence ?

This is a wrong question. It's not a question of whether we are ready for these things or not. We are all of these things. The question is can we see these things in ourselves? Can we see how deeply entrenched they are in our consciousness?

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Wed, 11 May 2016 #6
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 5845 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
The question is can we see these things in ourselves? Can we see how deeply entrenched they are in our consciousness?

There is no "we" who is going to see any of this. There is no "we" as an observer, no "we" who has a consciousness. "We" are consciousness.

max

This post was last updated by max greene Wed, 11 May 2016.

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Wed, 11 May 2016 #7
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3169 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
The question is can we see these things in ourselves? Can we see how deeply entrenched they are in our consciousness?

I visited this forum a short while back to comment on the new book by Mary Zimbalist based upon her diaries from the years she spent as a friend and companion of K. Since visiting a few times since I've noticed that not one thread has started any kind of meaningful discussion of the teachings. Almost every single comment is either a comment by Jean seemingly based upon some belief or conclusion, or a comment ABOUT jean. Almost nothing here concerning the 'teachings'. Jack made a comment here about looking at ourselves, but it will most likely lead nowhere, as no one wants to discuss K's teaching, but only Jean. Is that the purpose for which this forum was created? Someone visiting the forum expecting to find a discussion about the 'teachings' must feel like they stepped into the Twilight Zone. Just wondering if anyone is as puzzled as I am about this forum. WTF happened to the General Forum?

Let it Be

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Wed, 11 May 2016 #8
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 5845 posts in this forum Offline

Careful, Tom. He's back.

max

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Wed, 11 May 2016 #9
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3169 posts in this forum Offline

max greene wrote:
Careful, Tom. He's back.

???

Let it Be

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Wed, 11 May 2016 #10
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 5845 posts in this forum Offline

Jean,

The world was, and is, ready for Krishnamurti and for us. But we are not ready for the world. We are not ready for nature and the unfolding of the present. We want to live in the past. The world is now, the present.

max

This post was last updated by max greene Wed, 11 May 2016.

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Wed, 11 May 2016 #11
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 5845 posts in this forum Offline

Tom,

I can't use my e-mail, and haven't been able to do so for over a month.

max

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Wed, 11 May 2016 #12
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3169 posts in this forum Offline

max greene wrote:
I can't use my e-mail, and haven't been able to do so for over a month.

Can you contact Dev? That stinks. I'm having no problems with sending and receiving PM's. I suppose you could always join the forum with a new name....max greene II or something. Maybe then you're PM's would go through.

Let it Be

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Thu, 12 May 2016 #13
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5655 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
WTF happened to the General Forum?

I'll tell WTF happened to this general forum. Jean Gatti and his on going systematic destruction of every thread he is on. Jean cannot stand not being the center of attention. No matter what anyone writes Jean will eventually come in and start spouting his memorized crap that he repeats over and over or inane, rude or irrelevant comments.

I've wanted to start many topics but I know Jean will highjack every one of them. Just like he did recently to b's thread on Mary Z's book. He had nothing constructive to add to that conversation so he decided to try to insult someone. And even thought the subject wasn't insulted it started a flurry of responses that were completely off topic. So b, rightfully closed the thread.

You know of course that Jean was removed from the other forum for good cause.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Thu, 12 May 2016.

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Thu, 12 May 2016 #14
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5655 posts in this forum Offline

max greene wrote:
There is no "we" who is going to see any of this. There is no "we" as an observer, no "we" who has a consciousness. "We" are consciousness.

Max, quit talking like and idiot who thinks he is talking to idiots. K used pro nouns all the time. It's just a way of communicating. Come up with some new material for a change. It you can.

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Thu, 12 May 2016 #15
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 5845 posts in this forum Offline

This is not a matter of pronouns. It is simply that there is no one separate from the consciousness. There is nobody who is conscious. Is this what you meant?

max

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Thu, 12 May 2016 #16
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Almost nothing here concerning the 'teachings'.

Sorry to contradict you Tom, but I recently started 3 threads directly related to K's teachings (and K's quotes) about "condemn and identify", "Karma chain" and "self knowledge" and many others previously ... I come here to discuss the teachings but some people apparently prefer to talk about ME ... but as K said the speaker is NOT important ... deal with the message and not the messenger ... play the ball, not the man ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Thu, 12 May 2016 #17
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 858 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
WTF happened to the General Forum?

Tom, I'm not a fan of conflict and prefer peace and harmony but sometimes out of periods of struggle and strife, beauty can flourish:

link text

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Thu, 12 May 2016 #18
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Tom, I'm not a fan of conflict and prefer peace and harmony but sometimes out of periods of struggle and strife, beauty can flourish:

Yes seeing this with you, trying to avoid conflicts at all costs in order to preserve peace is generally not a good idea ... truth itself often can generate conflicts but is it a reason to avoid truth ? When saying truth others might enter in conflict with you, which does not mean that you are in conflict yourself ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Thu, 12 May 2016 #19
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 858 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
I visited this forum a short while back to comment on the new book by Mary Zimbalist based upon her diaries from the years she spent as a friend and companion of K. Since visiting a few times since I've noticed that not one thread has started any kind of meaningful discussion of the teachings.

Hi again Tom. Actually, on reflection I think you are making an assumption here which may not be entirely correct. Are you assuming that everybody who comes here wants to hold a meaningful discussion on the teachings of Krishnamurti? That may seem logical but perhaps not completely accurate. We probabably come here for many reasons. For example, imagine you started attending Spanish lessons in your town. Now the teacher and many pupils might think that everybody was there to improve their Spanish but this may not be the case. Some students might be there to meet new people, make friends, fill in some spare time, have a laugh etc. I think this is probably true also of this forum. We may have different reasons for coming here.

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Thu, 12 May 2016 #20
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3169 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Tom, I'm not a fan of conflict and prefer peace and harmony but sometimes out of periods of struggle and strife, beauty can flourish:

It's not the conflict I was objecting to. It's the lack of any meaningful discussion ....any threads talking about the teachings. If there are some and I missed them, I apologize. I only check here sporadically. No first time visitor to the site would find this Jean vs. Jack merry-go-round ride to be of the slightest interest. I wonder why Dev doesn't see this. Does he even bother to read what's posted here.

Let it Be

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Thu, 12 May 2016 #21
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5655 posts in this forum Offline

READ THIS WHOLE POST FOR A SOLUTION TO THE ON GOING STRIFE ON THIS FORUM

Jean does start threads. Many, many threads but there is no discussion about what K pointed out at all. Jean quotes K and then makes a series of conclusions based on his beliefs. Jean thinks he is the only one who knows the truth and he is determined to cram it down our throats. This is not discussion and this is what is killing this forum.

Most people have stopped posting on this forum and I don't blame them. And I admit coming here isn't very pleasant. It's mainly Jean making completely unfounded, ridiculous conclusions about what he has read and me objecting to it. Personally, I don't like coming here but why turn it over to Jean to make it into his personal blog with his ridiculous conclusions?

I do have a solution. Dev, ban both Jack Pine and Jean Gatti from this forum for at least the next six months. I don't know much about computers but put some sort of filter in there where neither one of us can easily come back here using a different name or computer. I don't know if that's possible. I will give you my word that I will not come back on this forum in any way shape or forum until invited to do so. Unless it is to point out that Jean has cheated and is back on. If I do come back on just to report this I will identify myself.

Let's see if this forum will improve without Jack Pine and Jean Gatti. What have you got to loose? Other posters: If you approve of this solution please check the recommend button.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Thu, 12 May 2016.

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Thu, 12 May 2016 #22
Thumb_stringio Brian Smith United Kingdom 212 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Don't hit the road Jack. I'm certainly not voting for that. Jean, I hate to break it to you but you're really not the messiah. Funnily enough, you used my quote at the top of the page - irony alert.
Jean, you're obviously clever, you have a great talent for evading difficult questions for example. I don't know why you'd want to do that though. How are you gaining from it?
The thing is you're not learning anything from anyone else here. We should try and meet each other. None of know anything really, do we?
Jean, forum's need prolific posters, the more you post the better, but the problem is you don't engage. When there's a response to you you're evasive - you won't answer. What's the use in that? There's no give and take with you. Your views are fixed, so what's the point of talking on a forum? Why do it? If you're superior then just write a blog.
Jack, I admire your sacrifice but I don't think it would work.
Jean, come on man.

This post was last updated by Brian Smith (account deleted) Thu, 12 May 2016.

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Thu, 12 May 2016 #23
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 858 posts in this forum Offline

Like Brian, I'm against the idea of Jack and Jean being banned for six months. A noble gesture Jack but I don't think it's the solution. We need more discussions like the one that's going on in the "Certainty" thread. Discussions which are opened up through questioning and reflection might actually lead somewhere. We all have a responsibility to foster an inquiring approach and avoid closing a discussion down by responding quickly with conclusions.

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Thu, 12 May 2016 #24
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1430 posts in this forum Offline

A possibility also and I think this was something Dev posted a while ago to the effect of 'if you don't like, agree, with what someone posts, ignore it, don't respond'. Respond to what you feel is pertinent...If someone feels the need to constantly say "All is One" or some such thing, ignore it. This type of 'problem' is taken care quickly in an organization setting where if one's behavior is 'out of line' people's 'looks of disapproval' are usually enough to take care of it. Here it's all about words, no 'looks', all equal here in that sense. We all perhaps have difficulty with the 'tenor', (certitude) of some peoples posts but confronting them to let them know that seems to be ineffectual, and creates strife, because perhaps, what I find objectionable, they can't see and even if they could, they would not agree with. I say ignore whatever is not of interest and respond, discuss with those that are. No-one can 'take over' the forum if people don't respond. Just because we are most of us gathered here around the work of Krishnamurti, doesn't mean that that perceptive remark by someone doesn't apply here as well:... 'Hell is other people'.

This may be all wrong of course

This post was last updated by Dan McDermott Thu, 12 May 2016.

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Thu, 12 May 2016 #25
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
A possibility also and I think this was something Dev posted a while ago to the effect of 'if you don't like, agree, with what someone posts, ignore it, don't respond'.

Agreeing on that Dan ... but apparently some feel an urge to react emotionally to anything ... personally I just ignore those superficial reactions ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Thu, 12 May 2016 #26
Thumb_stringio b. teulada Portugal 495 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dan McDermott wrote:
I say ignore whatever is not of interest and respond, discuss with those that are. No-one can 'take over' the forum if people don't respond,

i absolutely agree with this

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Thu, 12 May 2016 #27
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Brian Smith wrote:
Jean, forum's need prolific posters, the more you post the better, but the problem is you don't engage. When there's a response to you you're evasive - you won't answer.

I don't see any evidence for this Brian ... it appears that you are just building an erroneous image about me ... in fact any image you make of someone is erroneous ... is this 'evasive' ?

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Thu, 12 May 2016 #28
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
I don't know much about computers but put some sort of filter in there where neither one of us can easily come back here using a different name or computer.

So Jack you want to put in place a whole 'system' because you cannot bear your own emotional problems ?

??

Take Dan's advice instead ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Fri, 13 May 2016 #29
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5655 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
A possibility also and I think this was something Dev posted a while ago to the effect of 'if you don't like, agree, with what someone posts, ignore it, don't respond'. Respond to what you feel is pertinent.

Well in theory it might sound good but the reality is this: How long can you stay in an elevator with someone who is continually passing gas? On purpose.

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Fri, 13 May 2016 #30
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5655 posts in this forum Offline

I still think the best option for the survival of this forum is to remove Jack Pine and Jean Gatti for at least six months. This is not a noble sacrifice on my part. Several of you have questioned what the image of this forum might be to first time viewers with all of the arguing going on? What do you think it is when they read what Jean is posting? Especially since he is by far the most prolific poster. People have actually contacted me over the past year or so from other sites telling me what a problem Jean is on their sites. I still have those personal messages from these people.

Dev, if you still come on here and read what is on this forum please do something about this. Is this really the forum that you want to have your name on? Is this forum just going to end up being the depository of basically one poster who is delusory and grossly ignorant of what K pointed out? A poster who is a self-styled "master" who is here to help the rest of us to see? Can anything be more offensive than this on a site dedicated to discussing K?

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