Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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The Golden Rule


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Mon, 02 May 2016 #1
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Most of you know the famous Golden Rule expressed as:

"Do to others what you would like others to do to you"

or in its negative form (sometimes called the Silver Rule)

"Don't do to others what you would not like others to do to you"

Isn't this rule another way to express "You are the world" ? expressing that whatever you do, others will do too ... kind of mirror effect, of reciprocation between 'me' and 'others' ... no separation, no division ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 02 May 2016 #2
Thumb_avatar Peter Kesting United States 1228 posts in this forum Offline

If you see that you actually are the other. There is no need for a rule.

The rule is actually a mistake, something false. First see.

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Mon, 02 May 2016 #3
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Kesting wrote:
If you see that you actually are the other. There is no need for a rule.

Sure peter, IF ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 02 May 2016 #4
Thumb_avatar Peter Kesting United States 1228 posts in this forum Offline

Hello Jean,

"Sure peter IF"

I don't know if you are wanting a reply.

This post was last updated by Peter Kesting Mon, 02 May 2016.

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Mon, 02 May 2016 #5
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Kesting wrote:
I don't know if you are wanting a reply.

No peter, I mean that not many people consider to be the 'other' ... most people live in duality and need rules ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Mon, 02 May 2016 #6
Thumb_stringio Brian Smith United Kingdom 212 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jean Gatti wrote:
most people live in duality and need rules ...

I don't know why, but I've got a funny feeling that you don't.

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Mon, 02 May 2016 #7
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3169 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
most people live in duality and need rules ...

Don't the rules divide, Jean...the 'what is' from the 'what should be'(THE IDEAL)? This is from Peter: "The rule is actually a mistake, something false. First see." And from K: "The ideal is a real curse because it really prevents you from understanding what is;"

Let it Be

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Tue, 03 May 2016 #8
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Don't the rules divide, Jean

Hello Tom, can you tell me in what sense the rule "do to others what you would like others to do to you" divide ?

In fact it is not exactly a 'rule', it is not a 'commandment', not an 'ideal', but rather an understanding of relationships ...

What has to be understood is the following: whatever you do to others, by doing it, you 'allow' others to do the same to you ... it is a law of cause and effect ... unfortunately it appears that most people do not understand this simple law ... thay ask others to behave in a way they don't accept for themselves ...

IOW. "Do what I tell you but don't do what I do"

Why resist 'what is' ?

This post was last updated by Jean Gatti Tue, 03 May 2016.

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Tue, 03 May 2016 #9
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3169 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

Don't the rules divide, Jean

Jean: Hello Tom, can you tell me in what sense the rule "do to others what you would like others to do to you" divide ?

But you said above Jean, that some people "need rules"....your words. Already you've divided yourself from those who need rules....who need to be ruled. Rules are something one follows as one follows authority, aren't they? And following authority divides one 'internally'. It divides you between what you're actually doing/thinking/feeling and what you think you 'should be' doing. So if we are indeed selfish or greedy we cover it up by trying to be generous or kind....never learning about our greed and selfishness.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Tue, 03 May 2016.

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Tue, 03 May 2016 #10
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Rules are something one follows as one follows authority, aren't they?

Tom, It is not so much a question of 'following' a rule blindly (which is quite stupid indeed) than to 'understand' the rule and see the truth of it

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Tue, 03 May 2016 #11
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5764 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Tom, It is not so much a question of 'following' a rule blindly (which is quite stupid indeed) than to 'understand' the rule and see the truth of it

Jean, there is no truth in rules. Rules may be necessary or not but whatever they are they are the product of thought. And thought is not truth.

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Tue, 03 May 2016 #12
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5764 posts in this forum Offline

It seems evident that rules are for people who want to be lead. Rules are for people who don't take responsibility for their actions and who wait for others, for authority, whatever that may be, to tell them what to do. Rules are for followers.

What rules did Krishnmurti offer to those who were drawn to his discoveries? What rules govern freedom and truth? Can you discover truth by following rules?

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Tue, 03 May 2016 #13
Thumb_9204480_n03 French Touch France 54 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Kesting wrote:
If you see that you actually are the other. There is no need for a rule.

Seriously, what is difficult here?

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Wed, 04 May 2016 #14
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

French Touch wrote:
Seriously, what is difficult here?

In fact the difficulty in this discussion is that there is too much focus on the word "rule" ... and not enough understanding of the meaning of the statement which points to the law of reciprocity in relationships:

what one does to others, others will do to you.

It is not a rule, it is a fact, and this fact has to be seen as such.

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Wed, 04 May 2016 #15
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 891 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
In fact the difficulty in this discussion is that there is too much focus on the word "rule" ... and not enough understanding of the meaning of the statement

Jean, isn't this "what is"?

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Wed, 04 May 2016 #16
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Jean, isn't this "what is"?

Yes, and seeing 'what is' (and speaking about it) does not mean resisting 'what is' ... there is a small nuance ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Wed, 04 May 2016 #17
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5764 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Yes, and seeing 'what is' (and speaking about it) does not mean resisting 'what is' ... there is a small nuance

There always is an exception for you Jean isn't there? You never do what you accuse others of doing. You are always right and the rest of us are always wrong. Isn't that the way you consistently see yourself?

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Wed, 04 May 2016 #18
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5764 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
what one does to others, others will do to you.

It is not a rule, it is a fact, and this fact has to be seen as such.

Really? This is always true? It never varies? People always treat you as you treat them? What kind of fantasy world do you live in Jean? Do you feel safe and secure in this world you have invented?

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Wed, 04 May 2016 #19
Thumb_avatar Peter Kesting United States 1228 posts in this forum Offline

K has said "love is where the self is not". In that state there is no concern with rules... no concern even with time.

This post was last updated by Peter Kesting Wed, 04 May 2016.

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Wed, 04 May 2016 #20
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Kesting wrote:
K has said "love is where the self is not". In that state there is no concern with rules... no concern even with time.

Maybe so Peter, but is this the current state of humanity ?

I was addressing here a fact of relationships, when one lives in the illusion of self he will meet and deal with other people also living in the self ... there is a cause and effect relationship ... precisely because there is no separation, no division ... the world is ONE ... it is not a rule, it is not an 'ideal', it is a fact ... and it is observable ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Wed, 04 May 2016 #21
Thumb_avatar Peter Kesting United States 1228 posts in this forum Offline

For me Jean I have my hands full with the me right here. :(

:)

This post was last updated by Peter Kesting Wed, 04 May 2016.

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Wed, 04 May 2016 #22
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3169 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
there is a cause and effect relationship ... precisely because there is no separation, no division ... the world is ONE ... it is not a rule, it is not an 'ideal', it is a fact ... and it is observable ...

If you're pointing out a fact that's one thing, but to call it a rule is misleading, imo. And to say that some of us need rules is of course dividing. Making the world NOT one, even though you say above that it IS one. Rules create TWO...division.....the giver of the rule(authority) and the followers of the rule. K tried to avoid that his entire life....saying he didn't want to be taken as an authority.....nor did he want followers. Not sure how you're seeing this Golden Rule you're speaking about, Jean. Will read over some of the above posts before commenting further.

Let it Be

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Wed, 04 May 2016 #23
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
If you're pointing out a fact that's one thing, but to call it a rule is misleading,

No Tom, I don't deny the Golden Rule is well a rule ... however we can investigate and discover why this statement is indeed correct ... when we see the truth of a statement, we do not obey the statement because of any authority, we naturally acknowledge it because we see the truth of it ... that's quite different ... no authority implied in this ... and no division either ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Wed, 04 May 2016 #24
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
And to say that some of us need rules is of course dividing.

Do you think Tom that humanity in its current state is ready to live without rules and laws ?

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Wed, 04 May 2016 #25
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5764 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Do you think Tom that humanity in its current state is ready to live without rules and laws ?

Do you think Jean that humanity in its current state is going to change because we have rules and laws? Is that what changes people? Adhering to rules and laws? We have had rules and laws for thousands of years and things have only gotten worse.

Consider what you say before you write it to see if it makes any sense.

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Wed, 04 May 2016 #26
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5764 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
however we can investigate and discover why this statement is indeed correct .

This sentence above is ridiculous, absolutely ludicrous, but it is very representative of how you think Jean. You suggest that "we investigate and discover why this statement is indeed correct". That's like saying we are going to give you a trial before we hang you. Jean you have already come to a conclusion before the "investigation" has even begun.

Do you see how you come to conclusions first then try to prove the validity of that conclusion? That's not objective reasoning Jean. That's prejudice. You don't mean discover together you mean that you will propagandize another until he accepts your point of view. You never seem to question what you believe. You just accept it as fact.

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Wed, 04 May 2016 #27
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
We have had rules and laws for thousands of years and things have only gotten worse.

Why say that things are worse ? 200 years ago black people were slaves and white people were genociding the Indians and women had no rights ... I don't see things as getting worse ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

This post was last updated by Jean Gatti Wed, 04 May 2016.

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Wed, 04 May 2016 #28
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3169 posts in this forum Offline

People are the same, however. We're still often willing to kill and exploit in spite of thousands of years of rules. Trump is willing to torture and he has millions of rabid supporters. You see, even when we see the truth of a statement like your 'golden rule' there's usually no fundamental change. Many Christians and Jews believe in such rules, yet we continue to hurt others...often unconsciously.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Wed, 04 May 2016.

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Wed, 04 May 2016 #29
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5764 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
Why say that things are worse ? 200 years ago black people were slaves and white people were genociding the Indians and women had no rights ... I don't see things as getting worse ...

Jean trying to talk to you is like trying to talk to a stubborn, petulant little child. How about this Jean, 200 years ago we didn't have atomic weapons, we didn't have over population, we didn't have 20,000 child plus starving to death every week or so, we didn't have vast water shortages and contamination, air pollution that kills 100,000's of people a year, dying oceans, desertification of wide areas of the earth, climate change, the constant threat of viral pandemics. 200 years ago there were no wars displacing and killing millions of people and on and on and on. 200 years ago we were not at two minutes before midnight on the doomsday clock.

You don't see things getting worse Jean because really, and I can't say it enough, you have a child-like confused, simple, shallow mind that doesn't see anything the way it really is. Jean, if you are handicapped I'm sorry but you really shouldn't be on this adult forum. Whoever is suppose to be taking care of you should know that.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Wed, 04 May 2016.

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Thu, 05 May 2016 #30
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Many Christians and Jews believe in such rules, yet we continue to hurt others...often unconsciously.

That's precisely the problem Tom, they 'believe' in this rule but they do not understand it, they do not see clearly why this statement is true ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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