Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Keeping The Faith


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Wed, 20 Jan 2010 #1
Thumb_stringio nick carter United States 777 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

More than anything, we dread loss. And because we believe what we've been told - that one must lose everything to end the suffering of dread and loss - we want to lose everything. But wanting doesn't work that way, so we're trapped in belief, worshipping and quoting someone's words, never seeing for an instant how little we have to lose and how much we exacerbate the human condition by keeping the faith.

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Wed, 20 Jan 2010 #2
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 1128 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

nick carter wrote:
we dread loss

Why?

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Wed, 20 Jan 2010 #3
Thumb_stringio nick carter United States 777 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Do you ask because you don't know?

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Thu, 21 Jan 2010 #4
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 1128 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

nick carter wrote:
Do you ask because you don't know?

I ask, because any meaningful enquiry proceeds forward, with questions that allow it to do so, no?
Why do we dread loss? Is it beacuse we can only relate to others, by winning and losing?

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Thu, 21 Jan 2010 #5
Thumb_avatar Hermann Janzen Canada 33 posts in this forum Offline

Nick's question seems to aim at the state of mind of one who is persuaded by the logic of k's teachings but then finds himself in a state of paralysis. The teachings tell us where we need to go, but we can't move. We haven't discovered it for ourselves.

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Thu, 21 Jan 2010 #6
Thumb_stringio nick carter United States 777 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Randal Shacklett wrote:
Why do we dread loss? Is it beacuse we can only relate to others, by winning and losing?

By "loss" I'm not referring so much to losing as opposed to winning but to losing what one has, what one identifies with, is attached to, defines oneself by.

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Thu, 21 Jan 2010 #7
Thumb_stringio nick carter United States 777 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Hermann Janzen wrote:
The teachings tell us where we need to go, but we can't move. We haven't discovered it for ourselves.

Yes, this is the problem. K must have known that he would spawn a multitude of followers and worshippers, but groomed to be the world teacher and having undergone "the process", all he could do was tell his followers to follow, not him, but his words describing the atavistic urge to follow a leader and identify with a concept of what-should-be. In other words, listen to the words that free you from the words that enslave you.

This post was last updated by nick carter (account deleted) Thu, 21 Jan 2010.

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Fri, 22 Jan 2010 #8
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 1128 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

nick carter wrote:
By "loss" I'm not referring so much to losing as opposed to winning but to losing what one has, what one identifies with, is attached to, defines oneself by.

What is the difference between the two? I define by what I have. I have, in competition with others. I compete with expectations, by accumulating things, people, etc.. This is my identity. When I am winning, there doesn't seem to be many problems. Of those, I can drown them in my winnings. It is mainly when I am not measuring up to expectations in my accumulations, that I feel this "loss". I react to this loss, with sadness.

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Fri, 22 Jan 2010 #9
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 80 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Can this image of loss be wiped out with sadness or its components ?

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

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Sat, 23 Jan 2010 #10
Thumb_stringio nick carter United States 777 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dappling Light wrote:
Can this image of loss be wiped out with sadness or its components ?

Who or what would do the wiping?

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Sat, 23 Jan 2010 #11
Thumb_stringio nick carter United States 777 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Randal Shacklett wrote:
It is mainly when I am not measuring up to expectations in my accumulations, that I feel this "loss". I react to this loss, with sadness.

Disappointment in oneself is a minor sense of loss. Much worse is the loss of one's sense of self when one is separated from a significant other, be it through death or betrayal. Or the loss of one's sense of self when one loses an important job or position of status. Or the loss of one's sense of self when a cherished belief or hope is revealed to be in vain. In all of these examples, what is lost is a comfortable, gratifying sense of oneself, and in every case, one struggles mightily to recover that sense. This is done, as you say, through accumulation. One exists to acquire and accumulate, and everything hinges on holding onto what one has and adding to it. To such an entity, there is no more dreadful prospect than that of loss.

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Sat, 23 Jan 2010 #12
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 1128 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

nick carter wrote:
To such an entity, there is no more dreadful prospect than that of loss.

Yes, so now we are back, to why?

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Sat, 23 Jan 2010 #13
Thumb_stringio nick carter United States 777 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

The compulsion to acquire and accumulate exists in the shadow of the reality of loss. We call the compulsion desire and the shadow, fear.

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Sat, 23 Jan 2010 #14
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

nick carter wrote:
The compulsion to acquire and accumulate exists in the shadow of the reality of loss. We call the compulsion desire and the shadow, fear.

Hi Nick.nicely put,thanks!

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Sat, 23 Jan 2010 #15
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 1128 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

nick carter wrote:
The compulsion to acquire and accumulate exists in the shadow of the reality of loss. We call the compulsion desire and the shadow, fear.

Wait a minute here, fear and desire are the causes of human accumulation complex?
Or maybe the other way around.......

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Sun, 09 May 2010 #16
Thumb_february_26-_birthday_pics_and_ebay_001 Greg Van Tongeren United States 8 posts in this forum Offline

nick carter wrote: we dread loss

Randal Shacklett wrote: Why?

gv: the more awareness there is of what can not be lost, the less there is dread of losing what can and ultimately will be lost.

see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5yhJ3dXOgY

The benediction is where you are

This post was last updated by Greg Van Tongeren Sun, 09 May 2010.

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Sun, 09 May 2010 #17
Thumb_stringio nick carter United States 777 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Greg Van Tongeren wrote:
gv: the more awareness there is of what can not be lost, the less there is dread of losing what can and ultimately will be lost.

Oh, do tell, please, "what can not be lost"!

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Sun, 09 May 2010 #18
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1925 posts in this forum Offline

Hermann Janzen wrote:
the state of mind of one who is persuaded by the logic of k's teachings but then finds himself in a state of paralysis.

If that is the fact of it - be paralysed. Stay with paralysis.

It is only the self that wishes to be otherwise, and then the self will try to project what that 'otherwise' should be.

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Sun, 09 May 2010 #19
Thumb_february_26-_birthday_pics_and_ebay_001 Greg Van Tongeren United States 8 posts in this forum Offline

gv: the more awareness there is of what can not be lost, the less there is dread of losing what can and ultimately will be lost.

nc: Oh, do tell, please, "what can not be lost"!

gv: as long as we are caught in an illusion of continuity, we are blind to the timeless presence of what is not of time. The other is when the self is not. The self is thought-derived, the other is not. To die to the known is not to lose anything actual although it sure seems to be. Do you follow?

The benediction is where you are

This post was last updated by Greg Van Tongeren Sun, 09 May 2010.

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Sun, 09 May 2010 #20
Thumb_stringio nick carter United States 777 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Greg Van Tongeren wrote:
as long as we are caught in an illusion of continuity, we are blind to the timeless presence of what is not of time.

As long as we persist in generating K-babble, we are doing parody. You follow?

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Sun, 09 May 2010 #21
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
It is only the self that wishes to be otherwise, and then the self will try to project what that 'otherwise' should be.

Yes, the 'wishes' and the projection of 'otherwise' are both at thought level. The paralysis will continue as long as this channel is being utelised by the mind for understanding, achieving, becoming. The fault lies in the use of this channel and not in its contents.

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Mon, 10 May 2010 #22
Thumb_february_26-_birthday_pics_and_ebay_001 Greg Van Tongeren United States 8 posts in this forum Offline

nick carter wrote:
Greg Van Tongeren wrote:
as long as we are caught in an illusion of continuity, we are blind to the timeless presence of what is not of time.

As long as we persist in generating K-babble, we are doing parody. You follow

gv: Dread of loss implies belief in continuity and deep-rooted denial of the fact of impermanance. It is our human heritage to share in that. Are we going to die (and lose everything) someday or is there dying each moment? Where the old ends there is space for the new. Can we see this? Or do we really want a continuation of the old? In that lies the resistence, the defensiveness, and the antagonism.

The benediction is where you are

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Mon, 10 May 2010 #23
Thumb_dsci0664 George Lanroh United States 200 posts in this forum Offline

Greg Van Tongeren wrote:
gv: the more awareness there is of what can not be lost, the less there is dread of losing what can and ultimately will be lost.
see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5yhJ3dXOgY

Greg

Just wanted to say thanks for the link, seen all six.

There is no other.

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